About when do you think the community will die?

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Sagranda
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Re: About when do you think the community will die?

Postby Sagranda » 19 October 2016, 19:44

MadDemiurg wrote:To all the "balance" complaints, the balance is not that bad imo, there are issues, but no MU is unwinnable if you know what you're doing (I've played all fleets quite a bit). Also a large part of the playerbase is probably SP. where balance doesn't really matter much. So blaming playerbase drop on balance is rather ridiculous I think.


Look at all the balance problems and say that again (hint: Orks weaponry + ships + upgrades + favours, Eldar weaponry + ships, Tau favours and ships).
And there are actually quite a few/lot who left because of stupid balance changes.

McNash wrote:-Finally, most of you really have no real power about how good the game will fare, on the other hand you can try to take it down, but you all are ultimately futile as you don't even represent 10 percent of the gaming population of BFG:A.


There were people who wanted to organize tournaments and other stuff. Such things can influence how a game will fare big time.

By the way, why is that so many testers of this game have ended up throwing mud to it? One my expect developers to look for people who will unconditionally support them, I mean, look at some of the DoW3 mods, they seem to have the whole day to defend the technical and design choices done by Relic.


Unconditionally support devs?
That's the worst kind of testers you can get if you want to improve and you should never expect someone to unconditionally support you, especially when you lie to those people and ignore them on many occasions.
I play Orkz to collect all those salty Imperial tears
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McNash
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Re: About when do you think the community will die?

Postby McNash » 19 October 2016, 19:57

Imperator5 wrote:Games workshop prices are bad and high. But other companies CAN have even WORSE prices. At least with the GW you get good quality for the unicorn's soul. Just avoid FW and Finecast.

Also, don't compare Dow3 to this game. Dow3 is so bad, C S Goto and Matt Ward making it would have been less bad. It will be only worth checking on the Freebooter seas because it will have a story campaign. Though I think I may just as well watch that on youtube. I'll definatly need it to have mod support in order to even consider buying it on a steam sale.

Lets see what Tindalos did that Sega could not:
-No rainbows.
-No lascannons, I mean lances replaced by multilasers.

I'm not giving "Not taking away synch kills" because space combat never had those and it would be way too hard to implement here.


Well, Games Workshop is certainly for people who has no cash, by this point their target seems to be the inner kid of guys who are already making enough money to buy themselves a SUV without going to the money limit filter (or whose parents can do that for them), I mean, do you really think they are targeting 4chan fast-food teen employees or high school students when they sell a 1200 dollars Warlord titan?

Most of us don't matter to them, a great deal of the complainers are not in their demographics, and they shouldn't because they don't need plastic miniatures anyway to stay alive, just the way none of us need videogames to survive, ad victims? Maybe time to develop some better judgement when buying?

Oh but sure, here comes the guys who will say "But they stole us", sure, let's see, BFG:A costed 40 bucks, how much do the average BFG:A gamer earn per hour, and how many hours they throw at complaining over a videogame?

So, yes, unless you actually enjoy complaining, which will be a very different matter (indeed, I enjoy reading you guys), you people are actually losing more money when coming to complain here than if you invested that time in working and just being more careful the next time you buy things.
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McNash
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Re: About when do you think the community will die?

Postby McNash » 19 October 2016, 20:01

Sagranda wrote:That's the worst kind of testers you can get if you want to improve and you should never expect someone to unconditionally support you, especially when you lie to those people and ignore them on many occasions.


Check my first post, there is a good reason I put the dog gif, what got my attention is the level of aggressiveness, no, I am not rejecting neither encouraging it, it's just that I found it interesting the way a person decided to go with certain t-shirt in a particular day, I would like to know the psychological context behind choosing the testers.
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Bosie
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Re: About when do you think the community will die?

Postby Bosie » 19 October 2016, 20:21

We need the Devs on here talking to us. It started to happen a while ago, and now...
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MadDemiurg
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Re: About when do you think the community will die?

Postby MadDemiurg » 19 October 2016, 21:29

Sagranda wrote:
MadDemiurg wrote:To all the "balance" complaints, the balance is not that bad imo, there are issues, but no MU is unwinnable if you know what you're doing (I've played all fleets quite a bit). Also a large part of the playerbase is probably SP. where balance doesn't really matter much. So blaming playerbase drop on balance is rather ridiculous I think.


Look at all the balance problems and say that again (hint: Orks weaponry + ships + upgrades + favours, Eldar weaponry + ships, Tau favours and ships).
And there are actually quite a few/lot who left because of stupid balance changes.


Neither Eldar nor Orks are unplayabe and they're not terribly OP either. Yes, not all Ork favours are equal and it's kinda ridiculous orks have been turned into artillery faction from a proper CQC one. I actually think they were in better shape if you fully revert them to post beta version. But again, you can win with them and against them if you know what you're doing.

Eldar imo were actually changed in the right direction, it was just a bit overdone and they did not address some of the issues the faction has (but at least they introduced temp crits from LS and removed taunt, otherwise Eldar would be unplayable). Still, again, you can win with them and you can beat them too (and it's less annoying to play vs them cause there are more ways to force them to close on you).

Tau actually are the most balanced faction on release imo, yes there are cheeses with water and earth castes in certain scenarios which need fixing but otherwise they're pretty great imo. And what's wrong with their ships? The gimmicky gravihooks and kroot sphere uselessness are the only 2 issues I can think of. Again, it's perfectly possible to win matches with them and likewise beat them, unless facing a really dickish build like full stealth water caste in cruiser clash (which I've only seen in mp twice, probably cause it's really boring to play).

Overall, like 75% balance complaints I see can be summarised as "I'm really bad at RTS but I blame balance for my losses". Not directed at you, I don't think you're that guy. There are some valid points too, but they kinda drown in constant ranting and whining. Some of these whiners actually made the devs do some bad balancing changes. These players are not meant to play competitive RTS anyway, they would leave sooner or later, although some seem to find some masochistic enjoyment in this.

Overall, of course there are lots of things that can be improved in terms of balance/variety/playstyles but the balance is not the biggest issue the game has. Guess I'm just really tired of seeing "game is dying because I suck at MP" posts.

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Bludfist
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Re: About when do you think the community will die?

Postby Bludfist » 20 October 2016, 00:39

MadDemiurg wrote:
Neither Eldar nor Orks are unplayabe and they're not terribly OP either. Yes, not all Ork favours are equal and it's kinda ridiculous orks have been turned into artillery faction from a proper CQC one. I actually think they were in better shape if you fully revert them to post beta version. But again, you can win with them and against them if you know what you're doing.


Because you can shove 50 billion ships down your opponents throat with mass torpedos and novas on them, their sheer numbers "compensating" for how garbage gunz, kannonz, oh and prow linked crits disproportionately messing up SM and Orks hard but eldar seem to get a pass on them for some reason among other things are

If this was pre price slash where in a 700 pts match where it was like 4 Chaos/IN ships vs like 6 ork ships orks would get smashed everytime b/c of looted ship trait (designed specifically for entitled IN players), over priced launch bays and no armor pen so they have no chance of brawling like orks should

Based on alpharius comment i find it amusing that GW is "ok" with the fact that orks a designated CQC race on TT has turned into as you said a long range "artillery" faction because once again their are still a 1 trick pony faction

Eldar imo were actually changed in the right direction, it was just a bit overdone and they did not address some of the issues the faction has (but at least they introduced temp crits from LS and removed taunt, otherwise Eldar would be unplayable). Still, again, you can win with them and you can beat them too (and it's less annoying to play vs them cause there are more ways to force them to close on you).


Overdone hmm? Sounds like a balance issue to me

Pulsars and star cannons are hardly viable playstyles anymore even with those upgrades and are more like death sentences, thats why i rarely see eldar anymore and when i do their all kiting ordinance spam fleets


Overall, of course there are lots of things that can be improved in terms of balance/variety/playstyles but the balance is not the biggest issue the game has. Guess I'm just really tired of seeing "game is dying because I suck at MP" posts.


Your right, the main issue is the abysmal new player experience that makes it incredibly difficult to retain new players so this game is going to continue to hover around 300-400

and no dont push it off as "oh this is a niche game"

many people have wanted a tall ship combat game set in space

but when lvl 3's get matched up with 8's and the devs right it off as "the warhammer universe is unfair so the game will be too" its not going to do the game any good
Chaos walking into Aldorf be like
Spoiler : :
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ApostleOfExcess
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Re: About when do you think the community will die?

Postby ApostleOfExcess » 20 October 2016, 03:28

McNash wrote: unless you actually enjoy complaining


I love complaining. Very fun thing to do. Look at No Man's Sky: I didn't even buy the game and I like hanging around the community, just soaking up the hate.

I'd also like to point out in both my threads (which have taken me like 2 min to write) we've gotten Devs to speak when they otherwise never seemed to.

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Imperator5
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Re: About when do you think the community will die?

Postby Imperator5 » 20 October 2016, 11:57

Well GW has not been known for being smart. They handle their IP the curious way. Rules need to be adhered to, but remember how the "vaunted space marines, bestest of the best" are the downright mediocre middle troop types in their game?

Yeah, I don't trust GW beyond making good models, paints, and making a semi coherent lore. Their rule writing sucks ass. If it did not, there would be zero competition to them in their industry. Every time I hear "I don't play warhammer anymore because...." it always ends in either "...prices are too high." or "....the rules are just bad and clunky."

They had made a little good with Admech/Skitarii, plastic HH and Genestealer armies, but is it too little too late?
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

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Kurnous
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Re: About when do you think the community will die?

Postby Kurnous » 20 October 2016, 15:24

The community is on life support and the prognosis is negative. This is a huge shame as I love the games despite all it's faults.

The biggest problem is the vicious circle that is.....low player base leads to mismatches, which leads to lower level players getting frustrated and abandoning the game. This game has a steep learning curve but you learn nothing by getting steam rolled by more advanced players....and you can't avoid them with this small a population.

Lower level players/ships should get a renown bonus of some sort regardless of win/loss for playing, perhaps some bonus ship experience, and an in game bonus, like increase resistance to assault/board actions whilst trying to warp out, and quicker warp out times.

The other problem is the player base attitude itself. Arsehole 'senior' players who don't let lower level players warp out when they see a mismatch...they will actively board, lightning strike, ram etc the enemies ship to death rather than let them escape. I consider that to be extremely poor form and detrimental to the community.

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Ashardalon
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Re: About when do you think the community will die?

Postby Ashardalon » 20 October 2016, 16:27

The other problem is the player base attitude itself. Arsehole 'senior' players who don't let lower level players warp out when they see a mismatch...they will actively board, lightning strike, ram etc the enemies ship to death rather than let them escape. I consider that to be extremely poor form and detrimental to the community.

yep this is getting a lot more common
before the tau it was common for people to break off as soon as the warpout started
currently people go trough a lot of effort to get a extra kill
especially eldar like to take advantage of that moment of weakness but all factions tend to do it


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