Once again, Ork zzap spam is disgusting

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Pleb Squasher
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Once again, Ork zzap spam is disgusting

Postby Pleb Squasher » 10 October 2016, 05:41

Play against a full Ork zzap fleet and you will understand. There's no two ways about this, Ork zzap spam is still ruins the fun of the game and is overpowered, FFS where are the changes this game needs?

The devs ages back stated they would facilitate increased communication with the community, they answered a few questions then but more is needed than a pleasant little Q&A, communication is an ongoing thing.

So I have two questions for the devs:
- When can we expect the next patch, why are we forced to wait so long for patches?
- What do the devs think about Ork zzap fleets?

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Harlequin
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Re: Once again, Ork zzap spam is disgusting

Postby Harlequin » 10 October 2016, 10:16

Thats a typical problem from spamming favors.
It dosen't matter which faction.

I don't mean, Zzap spam is not disgusting; i mean, each race has discusting things.
But, with Eldar or Chaos you were almost forced to choose the one playstyle that works most.

Tzeentch & Bombers/Lances, Zzap/Novaspam as orc, Tau & Marine guided projectiles, the Emperor and the Widowmaker.

But it's true, against a good orc player, i struggle even with 2x eclipse, because i don't deal enough damage without massive Ulthwe-Storm-Spam, until he forces me down. If i stay away and work with bombers, then they just hunt my slower teammate down.

But on the other side, a Orcfleet without that range, could be kitet all the day, so thats not a good solution either.

I really don't know, how we could improve the balance, without making massive changes to almost all factions. :?
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Bludfist
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Re: Once again, Ork zzap spam is disgusting

Postby Bludfist » 10 October 2016, 14:07

*sigh*

all of this going back to once again the devs decision for across the board price cuts on ork ships insted of acctully looking at the issues with orks


if the orks ships wernt made cheaper than they already were before then nova/Zzzap/torpedo spam orks wouldnt be such an issue
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Jerjare
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Re: Once again, Ork zzap spam is disgusting

Postby Jerjare » 10 October 2016, 20:04

Previously zappas were worthless. There are ways to tweak them without making them bad again.

-limit the number of hardpoints that can take zappas. Orks can already take plenty of line ships, so they'll still get numbers if they really want to specialize.

-make gunz and megakanonz actually viable alternate choices rather than just filler. Since the megakanon Nerf both these seem unimpressive. Realistically, an ork player should be sandblasting Eldar with enormous fusilades of dakka.

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Mister Maf
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Re: Once again, Ork zzap spam is disgusting

Postby Mister Maf » 11 October 2016, 19:59

Wouldn't the easy thing to do be to just remove their ability to crit at ridiculously high rates through shields?

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Ahzek Ahriman
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Re: Once again, Ork zzap spam is disgusting

Postby Ahzek Ahriman » 11 October 2016, 20:18

Mister Maf wrote:Wouldn't the easy thing to do be to just remove their ability to crit at ridiculously high rates through shields?


Just removing the ability to pierce through shields altogether would be enough, slight reduction of crit rate would be good too but unnecessary.

I see zzzaps as near no damage weapons with long range and high crit rate, but useless if the enemy has shields on. It's how they were supposed to work before the whole ork overhaul when Tindalos adjusted them to give SM chance of winning.

The thing is, back then the weapon crit calculation system was flawed and guns made no crits at all (it was fixed sometime after the introduction zzzapocalypse) and zzzaps were absolutely worthless at a time.

Without shield piercing they would be unviable as core weapon because they just wouldn't bring shields down, unless in conjuction with something else.

So... remove the shield piercing upgrade (would free up slot for something more interesting), perhaps reduce the amount of slots that zzzaps can occupy and we'll have a perfect support weapon that wouldn't work as main source of damage.
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Bludfist
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Re: Once again, Ork zzap spam is disgusting

Postby Bludfist » 12 October 2016, 13:12

Ahzek Ahriman wrote:
Mister Maf wrote:Wouldn't the easy thing to do be to just remove their ability to crit at ridiculously high rates through shields?


Just removing the ability to pierce through shields altogether would be enough, slight reduction of crit rate would be good too but unnecessary.

I see zzzaps as near no damage weapons with long range and high crit rate, but useless if the enemy has shields on. It's how they were supposed to work before the whole ork overhaul when Tindalos adjusted them to give SM chance of winning.

The thing is, back then the weapon crit calculation system was flawed and guns made no crits at all (it was fixed sometime after the introduction zzzapocalypse) and zzzaps were absolutely worthless at a time.

Without shield piercing they would be unviable as core weapon because they just wouldn't bring shields down, unless in conjuction with something else.
So... remove the shield piercing upgrade (would free up slot for something more interesting), perhaps reduce the amount of slots that zzzaps can occupy and we'll have a perfect support weapon that wouldn't work as main source of damage.

And so they would go back to being garbage slow firing trash lance weapons that wouldn't be good for the one role their useful for now which is applying the snare
And requires 2 upgrades to do so

With kannonz being trash now as 50% acc 3k range, slow firing weapons with no armor pen the only thing to spend kustom points on are zzzaps or defensive ord bays
Last edited by Bludfist on 12 October 2016, 17:03, edited 1 time in total.
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MadDemiurg
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Re: Once again, Ork zzap spam is disgusting

Postby MadDemiurg » 12 October 2016, 14:25

Tbh I don't see how they are OP in any form now...

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Mister Maf
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Re: Once again, Ork zzap spam is disgusting

Postby Mister Maf » 12 October 2016, 18:39

Bludfist wrote:
Ahzek Ahriman wrote:
Mister Maf wrote:Wouldn't the easy thing to do be to just remove their ability to crit at ridiculously high rates through shields?


Just removing the ability to pierce through shields altogether would be enough, slight reduction of crit rate would be good too but unnecessary.

I see zzzaps as near no damage weapons with long range and high crit rate, but useless if the enemy has shields on. It's how they were supposed to work before the whole ork overhaul when Tindalos adjusted them to give SM chance of winning.

The thing is, back then the weapon crit calculation system was flawed and guns made no crits at all (it was fixed sometime after the introduction zzzapocalypse) and zzzaps were absolutely worthless at a time.

Without shield piercing they would be unviable as core weapon because they just wouldn't bring shields down, unless in conjuction with something else.
So... remove the shield piercing upgrade (would free up slot for something more interesting), perhaps reduce the amount of slots that zzzaps can occupy and we'll have a perfect support weapon that wouldn't work as main source of damage.

And so they would go back to being garbage slow firing trash lance weapons that wouldn't be good for the one role their useful for now which is applying the snare
And requires 2 upgrades to do so

With kannonz being trash now as 50% acc 3k range, slow firing weapons with no armor pen the only thing to spend kustom points on are zzzaps or defensive ord bays

So have them do some damage against shields. That way they wouldn't just be free crits at long range without putting some work in, but they would still have an impact and would become more powerful once the shields go down.

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Ahzek Ahriman
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Re: Once again, Ork zzap spam is disgusting

Postby Ahzek Ahriman » 12 October 2016, 20:32

Bludfist wrote:
Ahzek Ahriman wrote:
Mister Maf wrote:Wouldn't the easy thing to do be to just remove their ability to crit at ridiculously high rates through shields?


Just removing the ability to pierce through shields altogether would be enough, slight reduction of crit rate would be good too but unnecessary.

I see zzzaps as near no damage weapons with long range and high crit rate, but useless if the enemy has shields on. It's how they were supposed to work before the whole ork overhaul when Tindalos adjusted them to give SM chance of winning.

The thing is, back then the weapon crit calculation system was flawed and guns made no crits at all (it was fixed sometime after the introduction zzzapocalypse) and zzzaps were absolutely worthless at a time.

Without shield piercing they would be unviable as core weapon because they just wouldn't bring shields down, unless in conjuction with something else.
So... remove the shield piercing upgrade (would free up slot for something more interesting), perhaps reduce the amount of slots that zzzaps can occupy and we'll have a perfect support weapon that wouldn't work as main source of damage.

And so they would go back to being garbage slow firing trash lance weapons that wouldn't be good for the one role their useful for now which is applying the snare
And requires 2 upgrades to do so

With kannonz being trash now as 50% acc 3k range, slow firing weapons with no armor pen the only thing to spend kustom points on are zzzaps or defensive ord bays


As they are now, the long range, mass zzzap spam is more encouraged than cqc. I'd much rather have orkz as they are supposed to be, close engagement monsters rather than come-within-12k, let-the-crit-fest-ensue faction.
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