Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

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Sagranda
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Sagranda » 05 October 2016, 18:18

TIL MWJ can only be used during TC :roll:

Still doesn't sound as if one would need TC to counter it, when you know MWJ range and limits, as well as watch the battlefield.


Also, if a combo is so strong that one needs TC to counter it, then it is a problem with the combo itself
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Bosie
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Bosie » 05 October 2016, 20:22

If it's been done once to you and in another match TC is hit just as it's getting into range hit your MWJ.

Or as harsh as it sounds LTP.
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Adrmial Seraph
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Adrmial Seraph » 06 October 2016, 17:51

Sagranda wrote:TIL MWJ can only be used during TC :roll:

Still doesn't sound as if one would need TC to counter it, when you know MWJ range and limits, as well as watch the battlefield.


Also, if a combo is so strong that one needs TC to counter it, then it is a problem with the combo itself


Maybe you need to eat a full mining laser to the hull after someone's stealth Stronghold'd you and uses tac cog to prevent any type of counter play to the mining laser.

Imperator5 wrote:Why exactly can't you MWJ away?


Without tac cog, you take a full mining laser's damage before MJW has a chance to proc and jump you out. Because of the short duration of the mining laser and the spoolup for the MJW you need tac cog to get out of the mining laser.

It's one of the few scenarios where tac cog is 100% justified as it buys you enough time to react to the mining laser's dps but if the global cooldown for tac cog is activated that prevents the other person from using tac cog within the duration of the mining laser.

Bosie wrote:If it's been done once to you and in another match TC is hit just as it's getting into range hit your MWJ.

Or as harsh as it sounds LTP.


It's not a l2p issue, this is a very specific abuse with tac cog that locks the other player completely out of its use during one of the only periods in the game where tac cog is pretty much necessary.

Abusing the oversight is not a valid counter to defeating an oversight. If anything, that proves how completely and utterly broken the design of the feature is as it currently stands.

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Bosie
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Bosie » 06 October 2016, 19:04

When the mining ship is close and the other player hits TC, use your MWJ at that time. You'll know which ship is the target so you can prepare for it. Once bitten twice shy.
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Ashardalon
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Ashardalon » 06 October 2016, 19:47

L2P has no significance in this argument, the delay should be player specific
its a flaw in the system and i havnt heard any counterarguments against that
if someone swarms pulsar escorts you can tap TC for half a second robbing your opponent of the chance of using TC to do a proper attack run, is that fair?
in all those arguments for TC it always came down to it being fair because you can use TC to counter TC use, with the delay being for everyone this isnt the case which is just not a good mechanic
there is no reason why it shouldn't be player specific
the timer is player specific, why shouldn't the delay be the same?

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Bosie
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Bosie » 06 October 2016, 20:51

Remove TC from MP games, problem solved.
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Sagranda
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Sagranda » 06 October 2016, 21:04

Adrmial Seraph wrote:
Sagranda wrote:TIL MWJ can only be used during TC :roll:

Still doesn't sound as if one would need TC to counter it, when you know MWJ range and limits, as well as watch the battlefield.


Also, if a combo is so strong that one needs TC to counter it, then it is a problem with the combo itself


Maybe you need to eat a full mining laser to the hull after someone's stealth Stronghold'd you and uses tac cog to prevent any type of counter play to the mining laser.


I asked a friend of mine today to test this combo with me and I came to the conclusion that the combo isn't only pretty situational, but also not that hard to counter in my eyes, when you use scouts and/or scouting skill, as well as watch the enemy behavior, ship positions, MWJ restrictions, etc.
So pretty much the basic stuff.

It has the potential to be really strong, but only if you fail to spot the enemy stronghold before the MWJ range.

Imperator5 wrote:Why exactly can't you MWJ away?


Without tac cog, you take a full mining laser's damage before MJW has a chance to proc and jump you out. Because of the short duration of the mining laser and the spoolup for the MJW you need tac cog to get out of the mining laser.


MWJ has a charge up duration, so you will take the majority of the damage nonetheless

It's one of the few scenarios where tac cog is 100% justified as it buys you enough time to react to the mining laser's dps but if the global cooldown for tac cog is activated that prevents the other person from using tac cog within the duration of the mining laser.


When a combo in a RTS is so strong that you need TC, then you have to address the combo, since TC is never ever justified as a counter to a combo.

Ashardalon wrote:L2P has no significance in this argument, the delay should be player specific
its a flaw in the system and i havnt heard any counterarguments against that


Because the presentation of the issue is just bad.
The delay gets blamed when it comes down to a possible overall too strong combo and other issues.

if someone swarms pulsar escorts you can tap TC for half a second robbing your opponent of the chance of using TC to do a proper attack run, is that fair?


If he can't micro them without TC then I see no problem with it.
Clearly a matter of L2P in this example.
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anguloke
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby anguloke » 07 October 2016, 04:08

nm.....................................................
Last edited by anguloke on 08 October 2016, 05:50, edited 1 time in total.
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anguloke
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby anguloke » 07 October 2016, 04:10

nm.......................................
Last edited by anguloke on 08 October 2016, 05:49, edited 2 times in total.
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What is Death? It is our duty.
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Ashardalon
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Ashardalon » 07 October 2016, 04:26

anguloke wrote:
Ashardalon wrote:L2P has no significance in this argument, the delay should be player specific


Only if it is done across the whole game that way, meaning you TC in PvE the AI isn't affected. ;)

The whole point is both sides are slowed down.

And again, if you can respond in time with the TC up, you wouldn't respond in time without it.

the TC DELAY not the TC
after TC is used there is a moment when it cant be used, this delay is there for both players
making it impossible to counter TC use with TC use
that is what i am against, it shouldnt be a race for who initiates TC first
giving that person the advantage of being the only player who can use it
if you initiate TC there should be a delay for you until you can activate it again
if i use TC i should have a delay until i can use TC again
seems fair right? more fair then whoever uses it first is the only one who can
the DELAY should be player specific , not the slowdown
and as i have said in all previous TC discussions, i dont even use it and i can counter just fine, just pointing out an obvious flaw in the current delay system
didnt seem that complicated to me guess i should explain in simpler words


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