Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

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anguloke
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby anguloke » 07 October 2016, 04:31

Ashardalon wrote:after TC is used there is a moment when it cant be used, this delay is there for both players


ah nm, agree then. totally misinterpreted that.
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Pleb Squasher
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Pleb Squasher » 07 October 2016, 06:28

Ashardalon wrote:except that they arnt using taccog, they are using the taccog delay
taccog delay should be player specific
only way to counter it now is by activating taccog as soon as you see a stronghold, and never deactivating it... thats not a fun solution
while usually i am not on the "whaaaaaaa taccog abuse!" side, i do agree this time
hell in 2v2 i have even been bothered by my ally activating taccog for just a moment making it impossible for me to use it
each player should have their own separate delay


What cog delay? There is no cogitator delay?? Game gets slowed by both players that's all there is to it. The only advantage of using it yourself is that you know when it'll turn on/turn off.

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Ashardalon
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Ashardalon » 07 October 2016, 06:55

try turning it on, then of then immediately on again
it wont work, there is a delay where it doesnt work
its a way to prevent spamming, which i think is a great thing
but this delay where it is unactivateable is there for both players
not just the player who activated it
making it impossible to activate TC to counter someone else's TC use if they time their TC stop correctly
giving whoever activates first an advantage

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Ahzek Ahriman
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Ahzek Ahriman » 07 October 2016, 12:10

Ashardalon wrote:giving whoever activates first an advantage


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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Adrmial Seraph » 07 October 2016, 18:09

Sagranda wrote:I asked a friend of mine today to test this combo with me and I came to the conclusion that the combo isn't only pretty situational, but also not that hard to counter in my eyes, when you use scouts and/or scouting skill, as well as watch the enemy behavior, ship positions, MWJ restrictions, etc.
So pretty much the basic stuff.

It has the potential to be really strong, but only if you fail to spot the enemy stronghold before the MWJ range.


The problem here is equal oppurtunity, I don't care if you and your friend tested something out that you've never tried to provide some weak anecdoctal evidence on why we should keep TAC COG's cooldown as global when there's a fairly large oversight with it right now.

Here's another example: Your opponent is Eldar, SM (non BB) or Tau and you're vs Nova Zzap Orks. On approach the Ork turns on Tac Cog, then deactivates it and then turns on autocast for 6-7 novas. You NEED tac cog to boost out of the overlapping nova zones, without it you can't react quickly enough to mitigate the damage properly as you need to reorientate your ship(s) to the least amount of overlap and them all ahead full over there which is fairly hard to do without tac cog in a second for multiple ships.

Because the presentation of the issue is just bad.
The delay gets blamed when it comes down to a possible overall too strong combo and other issues.


I'm sorry but I'm gonna brush off this phrase once again. This is stupid person logic. From what I've seen you're far from being this stupid so what gives? Do you secretly use tac cog abuse to get an edge over your opponents? Beause that is the only reason I can think of that logically makes sense where someone would defend a mechanic that wasn't properly imlemented and thus THE MECHANIC is unfair in it's availibility of use to both players.

Bosie wrote:Remove TC from MP games, problem solved.


While that certainly solves the problem, it's a whole lot like giving yourself 3rd degree burns to prevent acne. It's a little too over the top. Ashardalon has it right, the only thing here that needs a chance is the cooldown before tac cog can be activated again needs to be player specific. With that implemented this issue evaporates over night.

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Sagranda
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Sagranda » 07 October 2016, 19:16

Adrmial Seraph wrote:
Sagranda wrote:I asked a friend of mine today to test this combo with me and I came to the conclusion that the combo isn't only pretty situational, but also not that hard to counter in my eyes, when you use scouts and/or scouting skill, as well as watch the enemy behavior, ship positions, MWJ restrictions, etc.
So pretty much the basic stuff.

It has the potential to be really strong, but only if you fail to spot the enemy stronghold before the MWJ range.


The problem here is equal oppurtunity, I don't care if you and your friend tested something out that you've never tried to provide some weak anecdoctal evidence on why we should keep TAC COG's cooldown as global when there's a fairly large oversight with it right now.


You claimed that the combo is only counter-able via TC and that's what I commented on since it is just not true.

Here's another example: Your opponent is Eldar, SM (non BB) or Tau and you're vs Nova Zzap Orks. On approach the Ork turns on Tac Cog, then deactivates it and then turns on autocast for 6-7 novas. You NEED tac cog to boost out of the overlapping nova zones, without it you can't react quickly enough to mitigate the damage properly as you need to reorientate your ship(s) to the least amount of overlap and them all ahead full over there which is fairly hard to do without tac cog in a second for multiple ships.


Address Ork Nova spam and the issue resolves itself.
If you want to give an example, then please don't use balance issues and bad fleet design, since those are the actual problems that need to be taken care of.

And btw, just because you can't or perceive it as hard doesn't mean that it's the same for others.

Because the presentation of the issue is just bad.
The delay gets blamed when it comes down to a possible overall too strong combo and other issues.


I'm sorry but I'm gonna brush off this phrase once again. This is stupid person logic. From what I've seen you're far from being this stupid so what gives? Do you secretly use tac cog abuse to get an edge over your opponents? Beause that is the only reason I can think of that logically makes sense where someone would defend a mechanic that wasn't properly imlemented and thus THE MECHANIC is unfair in it's availibility of use to both players.


The only time I use TC is when someone annoys the shit out of me during a match with it and his last ship is about to receive the deathblow. So satisfying to watch.
Aside from that I never ever use it for anything during a match. No need to.


I didn't even comment on if I want the delay to stay or not since there's no good solution to it.
Remove the delay for the player who didn't activate it and you can completely turn it into a TBS game.
Let the delay stay and it is unfair for one player.
Both situations suck.
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Ashardalon
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Ashardalon » 07 October 2016, 19:19

I didn't even comment on if I want the delay to stay or not since there's no good solution to it.
Remove the delay and you can completely turn it into a TBS game.
Let the delay stay and it is unfair for one player.
Both situations suck.

or... i dont know... let it be player specific
what could possibly be wrong with it being player specific?

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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Sagranda » 07 October 2016, 19:23

Ashardalon wrote:
I didn't even comment on if I want the delay to stay or not since there's no good solution to it.
Remove the delay and you can completely turn it into a TBS game.
Let the delay stay and it is unfair for one player.
Both situations suck.

or... i dont know... let it be player specific
what could possibly be wrong with it being player specific?


I edited the player specific part in.
It's still the same though.
Player A activates TC to issue orders.
Right after he releases the TC, player B activates it to take counter measures.
Great RTS gameplay /yawn
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Bosie
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Bosie » 07 October 2016, 19:30

Adrmial Seraph wrote:
Bosie wrote:Remove TC from MP games, problem solved.


While that certainly solves the problem, it's a whole lot like giving yourself 3rd degree burns to prevent acne. It's a little too over the top. Ashardalon has it right, the only thing here that needs a chance is the cooldown before tac cog can be activated again needs to be player specific. With that implemented this issue evaporates over night.



No. It's removing a serious crutch from a real time tactical game. Plus it will end all the TC arguments like this one.
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Ashardalon
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Re: Tac Cog abuse with Stronghold

Postby Ashardalon » 07 October 2016, 19:30

but why keep it in this broken state
why make it a race
why promote turning it on at the start of the game and never turn it off
because thats the only way to avoid this

also since you only use it to troll says a lot about you
troll


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