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Re: Opinion on the state of balance and the game.

Posted: 04 October 2016, 12:02
by Bosie
Imperator5 wrote:Space marines suck worst. Than IN and orks. Than Eldar and Chaos, and Tau is best I feel.


In and Chaos are still top of the tree with Orks close behind. Eldar are okay with Tau being better than them. SM though, they are bad.

Re: Opinion on the state of balance and the game.

Posted: 04 October 2016, 13:24
by Bludfist
Chaos is the strongest faction in the game followed by IN

Every other faction has balance issues

SM needs accross the board hp buffs

Sagarada already talked about orks and tau

The only reason orks are "strong" is is because their ships are so dirt cheap they can spam a billion torpedos and nova cannon shots

Eldar are now a race that just flies around and spams ordinance

Re: Opinion on the state of balance and the game.

Posted: 04 October 2016, 13:39
by Ahzek Ahriman
Bludfist wrote:Eldar are now a race that just flies around and spams ordinance


Still better than pulsarpocalypse and destroying battleships in 2 strafing runs.

Totally agree every single race bar 2 originals (Chaos/IN for those who don't get it) has some serious balance issues that need addressing.

Re: Opinion on the state of balance and the game.

Posted: 04 October 2016, 15:04
by Mizar
Torpedos and bombers shouldn't ignore armour, and AP macro batteries shouldn't exist (or maybe just reduce armour by 25, not to 25). That would probably help Space marines. Obviously the damage of bombers and torps should be increased to compensate.

I don't play space marines much, but my low level strike cruisers didn't have too much trouble closing and brawling Tau the other day. It would be nice if they could focus on hit and run, rather than brawl, but I'm still experimenting with them.

Not a balance issue, but lore wise I don't think space marines should have boarding torpedoes. My understanding was that it is a suicide tactic reserved for the likes of Chaos and Orks. Space marines are too precious to load into torpedoes to fire at the enemy. Breaks my immersion a bit.

I don't see how Orks having cheap ships is a bad thing. Surely this is correct. Balance can be achieved regardless of the price of ships. I don't feel like I can comment much on Ork balance however.

Chaos and IN seem pretty much fine.

Eldar seem extremely difficult to use, but it could just be that I'm bad with them. Perhaps focusing on ordinance would work well, but it's a shame star cannons and post-nerf pulsars aren't good. I like Eldar for extreme speed and firepower.

Re: Opinion on the state of balance and the game.

Posted: 04 October 2016, 15:51
by Bludfist
Mizar wrote: AP macro batteries shouldn't exist (or maybe just reduce armour by 25, not to 25).
.

Thats what the upgrade does....now

Re: Opinion on the state of balance and the game.

Posted: 04 October 2016, 15:57
by Mizar
Bludfist wrote:[quote="Mizar" AP macro batteries shouldn't exist (or maybe just reduce armour by 25, not to 25).
.

Thats what the upgrade does....now[/quote]
Ah, I missed that change. I'm glad that was done.

Re: Opinion on the state of balance and the game.

Posted: 04 October 2016, 17:05
by MadDemiurg
SM suck mostly b/c of their massive weakness to ordnance imo (Low hp outside of battlebarges and the only defensive fighters are from a rather weak skill).

Overall I think Chaos > IN = Tau > Eldar = Orks > SM.

Eldar, Orks and SM have pretty serious gaps in their toolset and are more or less one trick pony factions.

While Tau can use some adjustments here and there they are surprisingly well done compared to previous faction releases in terms of balance/playstyle.

Re: Opinion on the state of balance and the game.

Posted: 04 October 2016, 17:31
by Imperator5
I think SM's problem is with AP. All AP.

At least the Tau have their low health offset by the fact that they can bring both broadsides to bear easily.

Re: Opinion on the state of balance and the game.

Posted: 05 October 2016, 00:47
by Bludfist
So here the thing about balance though, most people outside of this forums point to the ranked lists and state that because all factions are in/represented/present the top rankings that all factions are "fair"/balanced/ok

Re: Opinion on the state of balance and the game.

Posted: 06 October 2016, 18:28
by Adrmial Seraph
Bludfist wrote:So here the thing about balance though, most people outside of this forums point to the ranked lists and state that because all factions are in/represented/present the top rankings that all factions are "fair"/balanced/ok


Those people have no idea how statistics work.

If you use statistics to demonstrate a point, win rates and common builds matter a lot more than representation. Representation can be distorted by skill required and popularity. You can't distort, for example, a 80% win rate with chaos lance fleets that spam tzeen+slaany from multiple people.

That is how you determine balance, by analyzing the statistics of ladder to see win rates and common builds. If one is over used AND has a massively high win rate for multiple people...chances are it needs to be nerfed or other factions need to be buffed, assuming a reasonable l2p period has passed to see if the community has adapted to the meta change 1st.