Thoughts about progression system

Talk about Battlefleet Gothic: Armada here!
Beernchips
Posts: 824
Joined: 12 March 2016, 09:53
Location: Strasbourg
Contact:

Thoughts about progression system

Postby Beernchips » 03 September 2016, 10:59

I think that it is obvious that if the playerbase is not increasing it is in a large part due to the progression system in multiplayer.
If you look at charts, for many months, some people are buying the game but are refunding it probably because the first multiplayer games are too harsh for them and give a bad view of the game

On the actual state, the progresion system is made of 2 different things :
- Admiral progression which unlock new ships and new game modes
- Renown and ship progression

Admiral progression

The current system is designed to make players discover the game step by step by increasing the game modes and the ships usable.
When you face player of different rank, compensation is done through fleet points

The main drawback of this system is for players which wants to play everything from the beginning and don t want a learning curve but I don t hink it is the main problem which make players stop play.
A lot of games have this kind of progression which works well when you are matched with players with same kind of level

Renown and ship progression

Ships surviving gain XP and levels increased crewpoints and number of upgrades slots. Upgrades/skills/repairs/favors costs renown
When you face a player with different ship levels, their is no compensation.
Here comes a first problem and a really first stages of game : Players will have to face ships with more crew/upgrades with little experience of gameplay and without help to win. When you played the game a lot you can sometimes outplay your opponent even if he have more upgraded ships but beginners probably don t have all the mechanics to do so
Also dead ships gains 0xp which will gimp your progression, costs renown which will not be available to upgrade/favor ships and so on...
That s the known "losing circle" which hit hard in the first games and probably make a lot of player leave the game. The only way to break this circle i to play a fex escort spam games but you won t XP your ships so in the end, the ship progression is artificially increased
Another problem is linked to both system : Compensation is based on admiral level but you can have a lot of difference in a same admiral rank between ships level.
For example : Admiral rank level 1 can have the new lvl 1 ships or level 2 ships which make an upgrade difference without any compensation. The higher the rank admiral, the higher it can happens (newly unblocked lvl 1 ships vs full lvl 10 fleet...)

What to do

Many solutions can be found to have a better progresssion system (I won t say to remove it because it was already stated it would never happen)

Complete rework :
Remove of renown
Ships gain XP even if destroyed
Xp gained (Admiral and ship) is not fix value but depends of multiple factors (for example, identifying enemy ships, damages done/received, help to complete the objectivess, surviving, warping out...) more like an RPG progression
Upgrades/skills/favors are free for the first time you choose. Changing costs Admiral xp
Changing crew point costs Ship XP (for the lore)
Repairs/lost in warp time reduction costs Admiral xp

Those changes are aimed to have more balanced games in ships levels at same admiral ranks. If you lose too many ships and have to repair, you won t have access a fast access to high fleet game where you can t field a correct fleet anyway.

Changes to current system
- Destroyed ships still gain half of xp
- Compensation is not based on admiral rank difference but on total rank difference (admiral rank + level of all ships in roster available for the battle)
- Upgrades/favors/crews/skills have a fleet point cost (and reduce cost of naked ships to compensate)
- When searching a game you can select the range of fleet points you look at (so no more forced 700 pt cruiser clash when you have only 1 LC available)
- After the fleet have been selected, the player with lesser total ships level have a bonus (more renown gained/less chance to lost in warp/destroyed ships are only damaged after battle...)
Repent, for tomorrow you die

Hallbregg
Posts: 66
Joined: 22 May 2016, 17:36
Contact:

Re: Thoughts about progression system

Postby Hallbregg » 03 September 2016, 20:05

while don't like the persistent mode multiplayer because 95% of the games are stomps, we have the ranked mode now. So if you don't want to deal with leveling, play that.

User avatar
Ahzek Ahriman
Posts: 434
Joined: 15 May 2016, 12:51
Location: Krakow, Poland
Contact:

Re: Thoughts about progression system

Postby Ahzek Ahriman » 07 September 2016, 19:23

My thoughts on progression system are short and simple:
the levelling/renown system in multi has to GO.

Ranked or not, this is the prime reason for new players being pushed away from the game. I personally don't mind it in solo skirmish, but in multi it has already led to disaster popularity wise.

This is by far my no. 1 thing to change in the game.
The no. 2 would be making "custom games" actually custom, not just quick random battle.

Experience system could be retained but only if it doesn't have direct impact on the strength of ships in your fleet, otherwise the old players will have very unhealthy advantage over new low level (in-game lvl, not skill lvl) players. For instance, some visual options for higher level generals or something like that.

Levelling for the sake of levelling is OK, levelling for the sake of getting stronger was a good, natural intent but proves fatal and has to be changed ASAP.

Tindalos have the last chance. Space Marine DLC gave temporary boost to player pool, but it faded. Now another DLC will have the same effect but in with the current situation it will perish too. And there are only so many DLC's they can release before the players just give up on the game.
The sentence below is true
Spoiler : :
The sentence above is false

User avatar
malcontent333
Posts: 37
Joined: 28 October 2015, 21:58
Contact:

Re: Thoughts about progression system

Postby malcontent333 » 07 September 2016, 19:34

Personally, I like the progression system. However, I'm aware of the problems it's been causing.

My solution would be an extra game mode.

We'd have Ranked, Progression/role play, and Custom.

Custom would be a lot like playing the original table top. The host would select the points/renown limit, game type, etc. Players would then build a fleet using the available points/renown. I'd make all ships/admirals max level, so players would purchase a one off fleet and upgrades

I know that's similar to ranked, but I feel differences would be significant enough to appeal to new and veteran players
Orkz is never beatin in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we legz it we don't die neither, so we can come back for annuver go, see!

User avatar
Ahzek Ahriman
Posts: 434
Joined: 15 May 2016, 12:51
Location: Krakow, Poland
Contact:

Re: Thoughts about progression system

Postby Ahzek Ahriman » 07 September 2016, 19:36

malcontent333 wrote:Personally, I like the progression system. However, I'm aware of the problems it's been causing.

My solution would be an extra game mode.

We'd have Ranked, Progression/role play, and Custom.

Custom would be a lot like playing the original table top. The host would select the points/renown limit, game type, etc. Players would then build a fleet using the available points/renown. I'd make all ships/admirals max level, so players would purchase a one off fleet and upgrades

I know that's similar to ranked, but I feel differences would be significant enough to appeal to new and veteran players


Fully agreed, custom game mode for both single and multiplayer would be a great solution. If only Tindalos finally took notice of custom game mode.
The sentence below is true
Spoiler : :
The sentence above is false

Drakausa
Posts: 236
Joined: 18 December 2015, 16:41
Contact:

Re: Thoughts about progression system

Postby Drakausa » 11 September 2016, 22:20

This game will be tweaked and DLCs sold later, maybe, but the actual fact is that BFG is turning out to be a 'one-off' sale. I have a sneaky feeling that they are already (or already have) begun work on their next title. We can expect little more than tweaking and maybe a few DLCs as the basic game structure will not be changed. Too expensive.

Do I sound just negative? I have two plastic painted fleets of Gothic ships and a full company of land fighting Space Marine figures (plus extras like tanks etc...) as well as numerous books and mags from GW about Gothic and more. I love the games and lore. This version was a disappointment unfortunately and the few remaining players who bother to post here on the forums say, basically, the same thing. I wish things would change and get better and fervently hope my post is completely wrong. So far, No.

User avatar
malcontent333
Posts: 37
Joined: 28 October 2015, 21:58
Contact:

Re: Thoughts about progression system

Postby malcontent333 » 12 September 2016, 18:08

Drakausa wrote:This game will be tweaked and DLCs sold later, maybe, but the actual fact is that BFG is turning out to be a 'one-off' sale. I have a sneaky feeling that they are already (or already have) begun work on their next title. We can expect little more than tweaking and maybe a few DLCs as the basic game structure will not be changed. Too expensive.

Do I sound just negative? I have two plastic painted fleets of Gothic ships and a full company of land fighting Space Marine figures (plus extras like tanks etc...) as well as numerous books and mags from GW about Gothic and more. I love the games and lore. This version was a disappointment unfortunately and the few remaining players who bother to post here on the forums say, basically, the same thing. I wish things would change and get better and fervently hope my post is completely wrong. So far, No.


As much as I would like to see some changes, I still love this game and play it every day. I'd be on multi-player more, but even text based human interaction is stressful for me
Orkz is never beatin in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we legz it we don't die neither, so we can come back for annuver go, see!

User avatar
McNash
Posts: 191
Joined: 24 March 2016, 00:50
Contact:

Re: Thoughts about progression system

Postby McNash » 13 September 2016, 06:49

I agree with the sorcerer the progression and renown systems need to go away, at least in skirmish we can use the BFGA editor to level everything up with small effort, however, it hasn't been updated for the Tau yet, so we are stuck to the random variable to level up.
Image


Return to “General Gameplay Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Rogerref and 11 guests