What do you think about maybe side factions ? Maybe as DLC ?

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Imperator5
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Re: What do you think about maybe side factions ? Maybe as DLC ?

Postby Imperator5 » 26 August 2016, 07:27

McNash wrote:Is there any novel featuring Tau warships? There are some good ones with necrons and tyranids but the only references I found for the tau fleet in recent fluff were in Kauyon and Mont'ka, and those books felt like Games Workshop had to dumb down the Imperium a lot to allow the Tau to actually have a chance, also, the campaign was a lot of power-creep.


There was a Damocles Gulf series novels. The first two novels are kinda eh, but the third semi related "Savage scars" is a good read that has a lot of nice technical details for both sides.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

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Re: What do you think about maybe side factions ? Maybe as DLC ?

Postby StarSauron » 12 December 2016, 22:35

Well recently I did read that the "negative" reviews do mostly complain,


1 oh no I must unlock everything

2 oh no I other Admirals who have played longer have better ships

3 oh no, the game is too hard for me


A noob faction for Lazy people ?

So Actually this Chaos "Black Crusade fleet" and for Empire Adeptus Mechanicus "Explorator Fleets" sounds like a good Solution.

Why not ? You can use the actual models for ships and make them more "Noob" friendly , or more handy.
With slight adjustments this could be an easy great addition to the game.


Black Crusade fleet:
The Normal Chaos fleet just does stay at range with lances 15000.

Well I am pretty sure Chaos must be more interesting that this lol.

My Idea would be just to reduce the ranges and instead increase the fire rates and hitpoints,
this way we will create still a balanced, but unique faction.

I mean max range for lances 6000, no bombers,but the fire rate is doubled and 30% more hit points for the ships.
So you can go close combat and ram your enemies.




Empire Adeptus Mechanicus "Explorator Fleets"
The Normal Empire fleet just does spam torpedoes.
So you could make there instead of Torpedoes spam, a carriers, novas and weapons fleet.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adeptus ... sels_(List)



An Ark Mechanicus class vessel is equipped with a Nova Cannon, four Lance batteries, and two Weapons Batteries. This makes these rarely-seen ships truly mighty opponents on the rare occasions that their journeys are interrupted by battle.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ark_Mechanicus

Defiant Light Cruiser, weapons batteries are replaced by Attack Craft flight decks.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Defiant_Light_Cruiser

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Ashardalon
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Re: What do you think about maybe side factions ? Maybe as DLC ?

Postby Ashardalon » 12 December 2016, 23:31

while that does sound good i have a few doubts

1. tau are already a great noob faction the main thing that kills tau noobs is not understanding detection but the basic engagement techniques are pretty straight forward, neither of the factions you suggest help in learning detection and without fighters chaos would get massacred from torps causing a lot of ragequits

2.would those black crusade ships be slower? many chaos builds already suffer from SM being as fast as them
their range is only a benefit because they have the speed to use it, if you have a tankyer fleet thats equally fast with comparable firepower it would make chaos almost unplayable, same for SM, lance focused fast fleet with extra hp tankyness, it would melt them
it would be cool as a learning fleet, as soon as it reaches lvl8 it becoming unavailable but if not, give that fleet in the hands of an experienced player and it would melt almost everyone, chaos,SM,tau,orks leaving imps and eldar as the only other viable factions
if you give them imp speed this can be avoided but otherwise a chaos speed brawl fleet with lance ap is a bad idea

and still it wouldnt help people learn about detection, as long as noobs start their game by boosting forwards with no emmision-dissipators activating the lock on order for some reason
they would still die and quit before they learn anything

3.the links for the mechanicus fleet dont go anywhere
the ark one does, but thats a battleship, starting with a battleship will not teach anything
it will just lead to people complaining that its the weakest battleship even though its massively powerful
just like people are still complaining that the SM cruisers are weak
they are my favorite ships now: tanky as hell,fast,nimble,great artillery, strong boarding, massively powerful macros it has everything
the defiant LC would just be a slower hellbringer, it would be depressingly weak
(tho i would love a mechanicus fleet faction)

4.nova spam, no... just no

but you are pretty accurate on whats causing people to complain

but the unlocking is important, every faction has its own play style and its best if you acclimatize to that play style at LC level in 250pts matches

the higher lvl ships, its just stupid, more people should start new commanders so that they can grind those noobs into the ground with lvl1 fleets, i have made several of them admit that no its not lvl its practice by hearing them complain and saying fine, what race do you wanna fight? ill start a new commander in it and beat you again then, see how your lvl4's do vs my 1's
excuses dont get you very far in this game , if they cant admit that its them thats doing things wrong they will never learn

the third one might the main problem, weaklings

i met a noobish player in a tau vs tau match last week that actually dared ask why he lost
we have been playing together regularly since, asking advice, discussing upgrades
pretty sure he could beat the crap out of me by now
its a complicated game, you have to have a willingness to learn

dont be shy about giving advise sometimes if you think someone needs it

if not, necrons will play similar to tau i think so not very complicated, with few ships to micro and plenty of power
so that could be a good noob starting faction if tau are too complicated

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Imperator5
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Re: What do you think about maybe side factions ? Maybe as DLC ?

Postby Imperator5 » 13 December 2016, 15:24

SM cruisers are pathetic pieces of crap that not even a self respecting ork would touch.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

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Re: What do you think about maybe side factions ? Maybe as DLC ?

Postby Ashardalon » 13 December 2016, 15:49

Imperator5 wrote:SM cruisers are pathetic pieces of crap that not even a self respecting ork would touch.

l2torp
l2focusfire
l2spacemarine
they require some getting used to, but they are awesome
only weakness is their voids are only 100, thats it

their supposed weakness is lances, especially chaos lances, but their damage is so much quicker then chaos, you just need to close in nice and tight and squish one of their ships to death (takes about 5sec for a cruiser) then go into a cloud, recharge and repeat
maybe in a 1v1 they lack something but they only cost 147 so even in a 300pts match you can fit 2 and 2 massacre
ork zapps are hell, yes, but they always are

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Re: What do you think about maybe side factions ? Maybe as DLC ?

Postby CALiGeR190 » 13 December 2016, 17:48

Ashardalon wrote:l2torp
l2focusfire
l2spacemarine
they require some getting used to, but they are awesome
only weakness is their voids are only 100, thats it

their supposed weakness is lances, especially chaos lances, but their damage is so much quicker then chaos, you just need to close in nice and tight and squish one of their ships to death (takes about 5sec for a cruiser) then go into a cloud, recharge and repeat
maybe in a 1v1 they lack something but they only cost 147 so even in a 300pts match you can fit 2 and 2 massacre
ork zapps are hell, yes, but they always are

'Awesome' points are practical immunity to boarding, high armour (mostly rendered useless) and decent but not incredible torps (just too slow, and weak to anything with a decent troop value).

Weapons are complete and utter garbage with the only exception of the lance turrets, which are identical to the IN lance turrets and thus ok/good, and the bombardment cannons which are amazing. They are absolutely awful in a gun fight at any range.
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Ashardalon
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Re: What do you think about maybe side factions ? Maybe as DLC ?

Postby Ashardalon » 13 December 2016, 18:53

'Awesome' points are practical immunity to boarding, high armor (mostly rendered useless) and decent but not incredible torps (just too slow, and weak to anything with a decent troop value).

Weapons are complete and utter garbage with the only exception of the lance turrets, which are identical to the IN lance turrets and thus ok/good, and the bombardment cannons which are amazing. They are absolutely awful in a gun fight at any range.


its boarding immunity? no, are you putting points into marines? that explains your bad experience with the weapons
most of its strength comes from crits, especially the bombardment cannon, only the lances are complete crap
so 3pts into specialist crew(librarian,chaptermaster) 3pts servitors (duh) 3pts into gunner

high armor is not irrelevant, with the new reworked AP still leaves you with 50
while ramming it wouldn't do massive damage but will take barely any, if you ram an ork in his ass you will win as long as its not a battleship or if its goff favored
and if it comes to lances who do have total AP, lances are erosion weapons only really useful if you can keep a lock on for a long time, thats why having superior speed is so important for chaos, if you brawl with lances those weapons are crap, and like i said 5sec to kill a cruiser, not a lot of time to erode them away
(except zapps or pulsars) they simply dont have the burst to do much vs a properly played SM cruiser duo

torps... dont tell me you actually take the imp torp speed upgrade? how is torp speed a issue?
standard 6 torps for a cruiser and its not that expensive for a cruiser, 2 in a 300pts game, only if you specialize orks for low cost ships will you get more torps in that point value
+ the choice between homing and non homing torps, start torping them from the other side of the map until you spot, then homing torp them, thats a lot more torps a lot faster then tau can and SM torps are full torps not those 30damage ones
and with the nerf to nurgle, the only faction that can have full boarding immunity is tau if they dedicate a bunch of upgrades to it
and again , they never stop homing unless you lose track so how is the slowness even an issue?
only other strong troop value faction is orks who will suffer double from boarding torps when they do succeed

for their weapons, the light macros are pure excrement, definitely, but no cruiser has those, those are LC's
the macro battery's are reasonably good, like all macros burstyer then lances so as long as you dont get spotted at 15k you will win vs a lance ship especially being as fast as chaos, combine that with focusing generators with your torps means you wont waste your first burst on popping voids, that first burst includes a bombardment cannon
combine that with a lock on from the ship protected by the other bodyblocking that will brace as soon as its voids pop and its likely that you will have 3 crits in the first volley
5 seconds for a cruiser

lastly "at any range" no, just no 4k and nothing else, path manually, not 6 why would you risk it, not 5 whats the point, not 3 dont give then any advantages(AP), not 7 why? just why would you do that? not 15... do i even need to explain
4 and only 4 and with their speed shape and turning angle that is not too much to ask, just keep it at 4
... or 0 if you have a chaptermaster and you are bracing

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Re: What do you think about maybe side factions ? Maybe as DLC ?

Postby Imperator5 » 13 December 2016, 21:55

This eldar trickery is not how Space marines are supposed to play. They are supposed to hit hard up close and board.

Their entire boarding is negated by this. Also, AP 50 stuff only works for macros, not for lances where its needed most.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

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Re: What do you think about maybe side factions ? Maybe as DLC ?

Postby Ashardalon » 13 December 2016, 22:20

Imperator5 wrote:This eldar trickery is not how Space marines are supposed to play. They are supposed to hit hard up close and board.

Their entire boarding is negated by this. Also, AP 50 stuff only works for macros, not for lances where its needed most.

i have addressed the problem of lances, they are slow in dealing their damage, compensating that by being able to deal it from far away, dont let them deal it from far away when you are marines and you should be fine
and marines do hit hard, they just hit hard on one target, kill it , recover and then smash into the next
eldar never get spotted, marines let you spot their fist as it smashes into your face

and how is their boarding negated? im assuming you are referring to my troop points?
they board more with more servitors, its the systems thats stopping my marines from boarding not their eagerness
and the serfs manning my guns are the best the imperium has
sadly after sending so many of them at the enemy, the ships hallways are a little empty so counterboardings do sometimes work

but we are getting distracted from the original post suggesting noob friendly factions

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Re: What do you think about maybe side factions ? Maybe as DLC ?

Postby Imperator5 » 14 December 2016, 09:53

What I mean with boarding is that their cruisers are bad at brawling, which is necessary for boarding.

Imperial lightning strikes are also inferior to Chaos and Eldar, making that a bad alternative.

Basically, SM cruisers are eldar ships that are fragile and need to be kept at a long range spamming torpedoes, like filthy dark eldar, which is way out of their boarding range.

It is also hard to counter lances, bombers, torpedoes and almost all weapons in the game, since the only three weapons that don't have some type of AP are Tau missiles, ork kannon weapons and melta torpedoes. Four if you count ramming.

So basically the Space marines are broken from a design perspective. Their hide and seek tactics are not compatible with their boarding strength, and coupled with their low survivability, they really don't mesh well into a well made faction.

Now in the mod we tried to make them into better brawlers so they got a chance to fight as Space marines should, with a close up boarding and bombardment.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.


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