Plz fix SM boarding torps

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Pleb Squasher
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Plz fix SM boarding torps

Postby Pleb Squasher » 28 July 2016, 04:42

So I like the idea of guided boarding torpedoes. Also I don't think unguided ones would be very useful, space marines, being the rather limited resource they are, drifting off into space forever would not really be their most efficient use.

However, boarding torpedoes are an absolute pain in the arse, not so much because they are too strong, but because of the way they result in SM players playing the game.

I just spent an entire game, the full 20 minutes, attempting to chase down a SM player using only Vanguard LCs. I won the game, but it wasn't particularly enjoyable, save for the two ships I managed to chase down due to enormous mistakes on the other players part.
Kiting strats are perfectly viable and are a fun way to play, however when the enemy's kiting strat involves flying literally to the other side of the map and firing torps at you, you question why these weapons don't have finite range.

There's no way I can ever imagine someone being beaten solely by SM boarding torp spam because of the running silent option (sorry Orks!) however it's no fun flying from one side of the map to another just trying to chase down a SM player who apparently doesn't have to balls to come within 15k of your ships.

So, boarding torps should probably be given a range limit, or be given a finite flight time so that SM players will actually come within reach of fleets and not just waste entire games pointlessly trying to land boarding torps from 20k+. These weapons aren't over powered, they're just plain annoying when people decide to abuse their range and it makes for a very slow and boring game.

Also: "cap'n Diomedes reportin' BOARDIN' TORPEDO SUCCESS!" :lol:

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Ubikuuu
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Re: Plz fix SM boarding torps

Postby Ubikuuu » 28 July 2016, 07:12

Agreed.
They are not too strong, but incentivize horrible gameplay.
A timer should do good here, and after that they stop tracking.

Of course this should be compensated somehow.
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Pleb Squasher
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Re: Plz fix SM boarding torps

Postby Pleb Squasher » 28 July 2016, 08:23

Ubikuuu wrote:Agreed.
They are not too strong, but incentivize horrible gameplay.
A timer should do good here, and after that they stop tracking.

Of course this should be compensated somehow.


Hol' up why should it be 'compensated'? The ability is already an upgrade and there is absolutely no need to provide compensation for a nerf, that's why a nerf is applied?

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Kadaeux
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Re: Plz fix SM boarding torps

Postby Kadaeux » 28 July 2016, 08:43

Pleb Squasher wrote:
Ubikuuu wrote:Agreed.
They are not too strong, but incentivize horrible gameplay.
A timer should do good here, and after that they stop tracking.

Of course this should be compensated somehow.


Hol' up why should it be 'compensated'? The ability is already an upgrade and there is absolutely no need to provide compensation for a nerf, that's why a nerf is applied?


Why should it not be compensated. Nerf for Nerfs sake is why the Nova Cannon is a worthless gimmick rather than the powerful weapon it should be.

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Re: Plz fix SM boarding torps

Postby Pleb Squasher » 28 July 2016, 10:45

Kadaeux wrote:
Pleb Squasher wrote:
Ubikuuu wrote:Agreed.
They are not too strong, but incentivize horrible gameplay.
A timer should do good here, and after that they stop tracking.

Of course this should be compensated somehow.


Hol' up why should it be 'compensated'? The ability is already an upgrade and there is absolutely no need to provide compensation for a nerf, that's why a nerf is applied?


Why should it not be compensated. Nerf for Nerfs sake is why the Nova Cannon is a worthless gimmick rather than the powerful weapon it should be.


You've given no reason why it should be compensated at all? SM are fine without ridiculous torpedoes (they just need base health increases on some ships but that's a different discussion), therefore there is no need to compensate nerfing boarding torps.

A nerf is toning down something that is too much, it doesn't require a change elsewhere to offset it?
You argue nerf for nerfs sake, what the hell is that supposed to mean? Stuff isn't nerfed for no reason, boarding torps would get nerfed because of the negative impact they have on the game, not for the sake of applying a nerf.

Nova cannons are completely fine, they were very op when they were perfectly accurate and did 200 damage, now they're pretty balanced, they could use a bit of an accuracy buff though if you ask me. They weren't nerfed for no reason, they needed to be nerfed.

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Ubikuuu
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Re: Plz fix SM boarding torps

Postby Ubikuuu » 28 July 2016, 11:33

Pleb Squasher wrote:
You've given no reason why it should be compensated at all? SM are fine without ridiculous torpedoes (they just need base health increases on some ships but that's a different discussion), therefore there is no need to compensate nerfing boarding torps.


Balance is also a faction thing, not only a feature by feature one.
So it's not a different discussion.
And higher health on their LC/CA is exactly the compensation SM need for losing their super long range torp cheese.
So cheers! We agreed all along!
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Kadaeux
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Re: Plz fix SM boarding torps

Postby Kadaeux » 29 July 2016, 04:08

Pleb Squasher wrote:You've given no reason why it should be compensated at all?


Because there is nothing overpowered about them at all. So a nerf to them is an overall nerf to the faction.

SM are fine without ridiculous torpedoes (they just need base health increases on some ships but that's a different discussion), therefore there is no need to compensate nerfing boarding torps.


Utter BS. I've seen virtually nothing but complaints that Boarding Torpedoes is the only thing keeping Astartes competitive at all.

A nerf is toning down something that is too much, it doesn't require a change elsewhere to offset it?


Yes it does. That is why it is called a "nerf" because it takes something and TURNS IT INTO A NERF BULLET. That is the entire point of the phrase. When you are nerfing something you SHOULD be compensating for it elsewhere. If people are abusing one thing to the point that it requires being hit with the Nerf Bat then you need to make OTHER options more desirable and viable.

Nerfing is typically not toning something that is too much. It's slapping the majority because of a minority.

You argue nerf for nerfs sake, what the hell is that supposed to mean? Stuff isn't nerfed for no reason, boarding torps would get nerfed because of the negative impact they have on the game, not for the sake of applying a nerf.


And yet here you are proposing a nerf for the sake of a nerf. There is no negative impact on the game, people who want to do cheesy shit will do cheesy shit and every single time the nerf bat is swung to try and stop them they just move onto some other cheesy shit and people who play properly are hurt for it.

Nova cannons are completely fine, they were very op when they were perfectly accurate and did 200 damage, now they're pretty balanced, they could use a bit of an accuracy buff though if you ask me. They weren't nerfed for no reason, they needed to be nerfed.


No, they're not fine. They remain virtually useless. They didn't need to be nerfed. They needed to be restricted in the number that could be fielded.


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