This game still has serious balance concerns

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Ubikuuu
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Re: This game still has serious balance concerns

Postby Ubikuuu » 09 July 2016, 08:26

JorpA wrote:IN has one very strong advantage over other races and its the ultra high dmg of all their weapons at pretty much any range. Use this advantage ppl.


Yeah... no.
Just no.
No.
I am alive and you are all dead

Leveling up Chaos:
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CALiGeR190
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Re: This game still has serious balance concerns

Postby CALiGeR190 » 09 July 2016, 10:51

JorpA wrote:IN has one very strong advantage over other races and its the ultra high dmg of all their weapons at pretty much any range. Use this advantage ppl.

They do have generally higher DPS across most ranges, and they can be built for long range, but seriously wouldn't try using this particular 'advantage' against Chaos at 12K (unless you installed the VI mod and go double Mercury+Victory) or Orks at close range (they will just always fuck you up if you haven't built full tank).
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Re: This game still has serious balance concerns

Postby Bludfist » 09 July 2016, 13:48

CALiGeR190 wrote:(they will just always fuck you up if you haven't built full tank).

what do you mean full tank? Is that just the voss shield and shield upgrades + overcharge shied?
Chaos walking into Aldorf be like
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Re: This game still has serious balance concerns

Postby CALiGeR190 » 09 July 2016, 15:23

Bludfist wrote:what do you mean full tank? Is that just the voss shield and shield upgrades + overcharge shied?

Yep, pretty much, those are the essentials to building as a tank.
Shield transfer and Belt Armour are also well worth taking.
Then to make the ships fast just take induction coils and the upgraded Engine pattern (can never remember its name, but I always use it).
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Drakausa
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Re: This game still has serious balance concerns

Postby Drakausa » 09 July 2016, 17:48

Cal, I luv u but what we see here is another high level bubble discussion. What possible use (or understanding) can new or struggling players get from this discussion? 2/3irds of the terms are relatively unknown because we are not getting large task forces or fleets but a few pre-determined LC + escorts and fighting who knows what, or how.

I have already been told to just shut up and 'earn' my right for high level play. I am sorry, but as much as I enjoy BFG, players who have that attitude towards me and those like me can just KMA. I am enjoying WOWS and have a nice FLEET to choose from in PVP battles. IT IS FUN! When, oh when is BFG:ARMADA going to be fun for the many and not just for the few?

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Re: This game still has serious balance concerns

Postby CALiGeR190 » 09 July 2016, 20:16

Drakausa wrote:Cal, I luv u but what we see here is another high level bubble discussion. What possible use (or understanding) can new or struggling players get from this discussion? 2/3irds of the terms are relatively unknown because we are not getting large task forces or fleets but a few pre-determined LC + escorts and fighting who knows what, or how.

I have already been told to just shut up and 'earn' my right for high level play. I am sorry, but as much as I enjoy BFG, players who have that attitude towards me and those like me can just KMA. I am enjoying WOWS and have a nice FLEET to choose from in PVP battles. IT IS FUN! When, oh when is BFG:ARMADA going to be fun for the many and not just for the few?

Allow me to explain the difference between BFG and WoWS with one picture:

Image

I, for one, am perfectly happy to work for and make someone suffer for my daily supply of fun.
But I understand and respect why people would give up on such games, as I quite like both WoWS and BFG:A.
(Also the VI mod is brilliant)
Where's your Federation now?
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Re: This game still has serious balance concerns

Postby Imperator5 » 09 July 2016, 20:55

You can play against easy AI. Even cheat there if you need to. Go get the save game editor, get a max level skirmish fleet and play Custom games its fun.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

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Re: This game still has serious balance concerns

Postby Brutoni » 09 July 2016, 22:14

Imperator5 wrote:You can play against easy AI. Even cheat there if you need to. Go get the save game editor, get a max level skirmish fleet and play Custom games its fun.


CALiGeR190 wrote:
Drakausa wrote:Cal, I luv u but what we see here is another high level bubble discussion. What possible use (or understanding) can new or struggling players get from this discussion? 2/3irds of the terms are relatively unknown because we are not getting large task forces or fleets but a few pre-determined LC + escorts and fighting who knows what, or how.

I have already been told to just shut up and 'earn' my right for high level play. I am sorry, but as much as I enjoy BFG, players who have that attitude towards me and those like me can just KMA. I am enjoying WOWS and have a nice FLEET to choose from in PVP battles. IT IS FUN! When, oh when is BFG:ARMADA going to be fun for the many and not just for the few?

Allow me to explain the difference between BFG and WoWS with one picture:

Image

I, for one, am perfectly happy to work for and make someone suffer for my daily supply of fun.
But I understand and respect why people would give up on such games, as I quite like both WoWS and BFG:A.
(Also the VI mod is brilliant)



See the issue here is the game is not Eve, it is not XCOM, it is not some of the games of old (Ultima IV, V, VI used to be a bitch for you ending up unable to complete the game). The game is not hard because you have made a mistake in strategy. The game is not hard poor because the AI plays well. The game is not hard because there are lots of intricacies to learn.

The game is not hard at all. The game is an RNG fest that is not fun primarily because of fundamental design flaws.

1) The scenarios are all crap. They are stacked in a way that prevents an event remotely level playing field. That can be fun in a PvE environment but it is cancerous in a PvP

2) The game is exceptionally RNG heavy and has some fundamental balance flaws.

As for your comment about BFG being more intricate and harder to learn than WOWs.... that is bull ****. The thing with WoWs is that it will really punish a poor player. As an experienced player you will have learnt how to move to avoid torpedoes, how to angle, how to fire and where to fire on a variety of different ships. You will know how to exploit over penetration mechanics, how to exploit damage control mechanics. You will learn how to account for your guns ballistics. Then there are other things, when to turn and how to turn in order to either present more or less of your belt depending on the scenario. Etcetc.

Yes all those things can be grasped. Yes all those things are "non variable". Yes I guess you could say that makes the game "easier to have fun with and more casual". Or perhaps it means that when playing against opponents.... you win or lose based far less on the RNG.

Another perfect example are games like StarCraft, Counterstrike etcetc. All are played to exceptionally high standards and joining in MP MM for the 1st time will see you die again and again and again and again. Then you will die some more. Then you will almost win... but die again. None of them are particularly RNG heavy either.

In fact most modern computer games played at the "hardcore" level move away from random play precisely because it is NOT FUN and it detracts from a good match between players.

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Re: This game still has serious balance concerns

Postby CALiGeR190 » 09 July 2016, 22:23

Brutoni wrote:
Imperator5 wrote:You can play against easy AI. Even cheat there if you need to. Go get the save game editor, get a max level skirmish fleet and play Custom games its fun.


CALiGeR190 wrote:
Drakausa wrote:Cal, I luv u but what we see here is another high level bubble discussion. What possible use (or understanding) can new or struggling players get from this discussion? 2/3irds of the terms are relatively unknown because we are not getting large task forces or fleets but a few pre-determined LC + escorts and fighting who knows what, or how.

I have already been told to just shut up and 'earn' my right for high level play. I am sorry, but as much as I enjoy BFG, players who have that attitude towards me and those like me can just KMA. I am enjoying WOWS and have a nice FLEET to choose from in PVP battles. IT IS FUN! When, oh when is BFG:ARMADA going to be fun for the many and not just for the few?

Allow me to explain the difference between BFG and WoWS with one picture:

Image

I, for one, am perfectly happy to work for and make someone suffer for my daily supply of fun.
But I understand and respect why people would give up on such games, as I quite like both WoWS and BFG:A.
(Also the VI mod is brilliant)



See the issue here is the game is not Eve, it is not XCOM, it is not some of the games of old (Ultima IV, V, VI used to be a bitch for you ending up unable to complete the game). The game is not hard because you have made a mistake in strategy. The game is not hard poor because the AI plays well. The game is not hard because there are lots of intricacies to learn.

The game is not hard at all. The game is an RNG fest that is not fun primarily because of fundamental design flaws.

1) The scenarios are all crap. They are stacked in a way that prevents an event remotely level playing field. That can be fun in a PvE environment but it is cancerous in a PvP

2) The game is exceptionally RNG heavy and has some fundamental balance flaws.

As for your comment about BFG being more intricate and harder to learn than WOWs.... that is bull ****. The thing with WoWs is that it will really punish a poor player. As an experienced player you will have learnt how to move to avoid torpedoes, how to angle, how to fire and where to fire on a variety of different ships. You will know how to exploit over penetration mechanics, how to exploit damage control mechanics. You will learn how to account for your guns ballistics. Then there are other things, when to turn and how to turn in order to either present more or less of your belt depending on the scenario. Etcetc.

Yes all those things can be grasped. Yes all those things are "non variable". Yes I guess you could say that makes the game "easier to have fun with and more casual". Or perhaps it means that when playing against opponents.... you win or lose based far less on the RNG.

Another perfect example are games like StarCraft, Counterstrike etcetc. All are played to exceptionally high standards and joining in MP MM for the 1st time will see you die again and again and again and again. Then you will die some more. Then you will almost win... but die again. None of them are particularly RNG heavy either.

In fact most modern computer games played at the "hardcore" level move away from random play precisely because it is NOT FUN and it detracts from a good match between players.

You do realise I wasn't being entirely serious?
I normally write lengthy paragraphs is I want to get a point across. That was more Satire then anything (although it could be argued it accurately represents the way new players are experience each game depending on who you ask).

I was serious about the mod though, which is why it's in brackets.
Where's your Federation now?
-Imperial Navy

Alpha Tester - Getting the game on its feet
Technical Tester - We had to get the balance right somehow
Community Moderator - Purging spammers and maintaining the realm
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Imperator5
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Re: This game still has serious balance concerns

Postby Imperator5 » 09 July 2016, 23:16

Honestly if the game is too hard play single player against easy AI. Why does it have to be PVP to be fun?
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.


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