Idea.

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Someuntrustworthygit
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Re: Idea.

Postby Someuntrustworthygit » 12 July 2016, 03:56

BanjoJohn wrote:
Someuntrustworthygit wrote:
BanjoJohn wrote:I dont like either idea, I dont think they fit with the lore or the orks. Any close range physical attack like a broadside 'power claw' should be tied to assault actions, like... boosting the number of assault attacks the ship makes, or reducing troop value of the target ship, or some other modifier to assault actions.
what do you mean lore wise? it seems very orky to have a power klaw snapping at an enemy at close range, and for a bunch of shootas to befiring at an enemy ship.


Its "Orky" but it doesnt make sense as part of an orky ship design. Look more at the dark eldar.. needle things for what I'm talking about for a weapon system that deals with assaults.


what do you mean that it's "not an orky ship design"? because it seems that this would be a thing an ork would put on their ship.

Valthic
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Re: Idea.

Postby Valthic » 13 July 2016, 00:50

No. The simple scale of the ships make that impossible.

Ships' armor is meters thick. Nothing short of a macrocannon-level weaponry can pierce that kind of protection. Escort class weapons are only capable to damage targets with poor armor unless they just dig their way through the armor by massed fire.

Asking for smaller weapons to damage line ships is just like expecting a potato shooter to tear through a MBT. Not gonna happen.

Lots of gunz is what you get as a line ship sized shoota.

As for the power klaw: it's hella unpractical. I know they are orks and that they defy common sense and physics, but trying to strap a klaw big enough to be of some kind of use would just rip the ship in half with every successful attack unless built straight on the prow to distribute the shock along the whole structure. And guess what, you already get it in form of the Brute Ram Ship.

Someuntrustworthygit
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Re: Idea.

Postby Someuntrustworthygit » 13 July 2016, 17:26

I already said that maybe armor piercing big shootas weren't a good idea, but orks, as you said, defy the laws of physics, thus if you attached a power klaw to an imperial ship it would rip it apart, but orks already have power klaws on the ship models and ork can prett much make anything work, even their guns wouldn't work in the hands of anyone other than an ork.

BanjoJohn
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Re: Idea.

Postby BanjoJohn » 15 July 2016, 20:00

Someuntrustworthygit wrote:
BanjoJohn wrote:
Someuntrustworthygit wrote: what do you mean lore wise? it seems very orky to have a power klaw snapping at an enemy at close range, and for a bunch of shootas to befiring at an enemy ship.


Its "Orky" but it doesnt make sense as part of an orky ship design. Look more at the dark eldar.. needle things for what I'm talking about for a weapon system that deals with assaults.


what do you mean that it's "not an orky ship design"? because it seems that this would be a thing an ork would put on their ship.


Orks would not be capable of building a power claw big enough that would be able to shooting out from the hull of the ship kelometers of distance required to hit another ship, and then reload that claw to fire again? You're being retarded.

Valthic
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Re: Idea.

Postby Valthic » 16 July 2016, 01:04

Someuntrustworthygit wrote:I already said that maybe armor piercing big shootas weren't a good idea, but orks, as you said, defy the laws of physics, thus if you attached a power klaw to an imperial ship it would rip it apart, but orks already have power klaws on the ship models and ork can prett much make anything work, even their guns wouldn't work in the hands of anyone other than an ork.

I think i missed another important point. Banjojohn is right: ship-to-ship combat is carried at ENORMOUS distances. We're not talking few hundred meters, not a couple tens of kilometers. We're talking about tens of thousands kilometers and even more. Probably it's not the best source, but in the book "Nightbringer" from Graham McNeill a space marine strike cruiser shoots a target 300,000km away, and the target was somewhat at it's max range.

And broadsides batteries on a strike cruiser are short ranged.

Consider that ships are "tiny": escorts are 1km long (more or less) and battleships (regular ones XD) can get up to 10. Particularly large ships got up to 19km but are now nearly extinct. Even a very large klaw wouldn't be larger than a few hundred meters.
Look at this for reference

Soooo, no. Orks may defy physics, but they are not completely batshit insane. A ship-to-ship klaw is impractical: you won't be near enough to use it unless you ram something. And guess what: you ram with your prow.

Someuntrustworthygit
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Re: Idea.

Postby Someuntrustworthygit » 17 July 2016, 00:23

BanjoJohn wrote:
Someuntrustworthygit wrote:
BanjoJohn wrote:
Its "Orky" but it doesnt make sense as part of an orky ship design. Look more at the dark eldar.. needle things for what I'm talking about for a weapon system that deals with assaults.


what do you mean that it's "not an orky ship design"? because it seems that this would be a thing an ork would put on their ship.


Orks would not be capable of building a power claw big enough that would be able to shooting out from the hull of the ship kelometers of distance required to hit another ship, and then reload that claw to fire again? You're being retarded.


I actually meant that it would be *very* close to the ship, like if you were ramming or being rammed or unleashing your broadsides right next to their ship, and also, the ships in the game are *quite* close compared to 300,000 Kilometers. Also fuck you i'm not retarded.

Someuntrustworthygit
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Re: Idea.

Postby Someuntrustworthygit » 17 July 2016, 00:31

Valthic wrote:
Someuntrustworthygit wrote:I already said that maybe armor piercing big shootas weren't a good idea, but orks, as you said, defy the laws of physics, thus if you attached a power klaw to an imperial ship it would rip it apart, but orks already have power klaws on the ship models and ork can prett much make anything work, even their guns wouldn't work in the hands of anyone other than an ork.

I think i missed another important point. Banjojohn is right: ship-to-ship combat is carried at ENORMOUS distances. We're not talking few hundred meters, not a couple tens of kilometers. We're talking about tens of thousands kilometers and even more. Probably it's not the best source, but in the book "Nightbringer" from Graham McNeill a space marine strike cruiser shoots a target 300,000km away, and the target was somewhat at it's max range.

And broadsides batteries on a strike cruiser are short ranged.

Consider that ships are "tiny": escorts are 1km long (more or less) and battleships (regular ones XD) can get up to 10. Particularly large ships got up to 19km but are now nearly extinct. Even a very large klaw wouldn't be larger than a few hundred meters.
Look at this for reference

Soooo, no. Orks may defy physics, but they are not completely batshit insane. A ship-to-ship klaw is impractical: you won't be near enough to use it unless you ram something. And guess what: you ram with your prow.


I guess the battles WOULD be carried out at immense distances, but look at the post I just made, they are obviously much closer than what you said. I know the 40k unierse makes more sense than star wars but it doesn't mean it makes more sense than real life, so just chill and let the orks have their power klaws.

Valthic
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Re: Idea.

Postby Valthic » 20 July 2016, 11:06

Someuntrustworthygit wrote:
Valthic wrote:
Someuntrustworthygit wrote:I already said that maybe armor piercing big shootas weren't a good idea, but orks, as you said, defy the laws of physics, thus if you attached a power klaw to an imperial ship it would rip it apart, but orks already have power klaws on the ship models and ork can prett much make anything work, even their guns wouldn't work in the hands of anyone other than an ork.

I think i missed another important point. Banjojohn is right: ship-to-ship combat is carried at ENORMOUS distances. We're not talking few hundred meters, not a couple tens of kilometers. We're talking about tens of thousands kilometers and even more. Probably it's not the best source, but in the book "Nightbringer" from Graham McNeill a space marine strike cruiser shoots a target 300,000km away, and the target was somewhat at it's max range.

And broadsides batteries on a strike cruiser are short ranged.

Consider that ships are "tiny": escorts are 1km long (more or less) and battleships (regular ones XD) can get up to 10. Particularly large ships got up to 19km but are now nearly extinct. Even a very large klaw wouldn't be larger than a few hundred meters.
Look at this for reference

Soooo, no. Orks may defy physics, but they are not completely batshit insane. A ship-to-ship klaw is impractical: you won't be near enough to use it unless you ram something. And guess what: you ram with your prow.


I guess the battles WOULD be carried out at immense distances, but look at the post I just made, they are obviously much closer than what you said. I know the 40k unierse makes more sense than star wars but it doesn't mean it makes more sense than real life, so just chill and let the orks have their power klaws.


Uh, what?
Bring me some reference of ship to ship combat that is carried out at closer distances and i may let the orks have the klaw. Until then, my answer is still no.

Someuntrustworthygit
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Re: Idea.

Postby Someuntrustworthygit » 20 July 2016, 19:33

Valthic wrote:
Someuntrustworthygit wrote:
Valthic wrote:I think i missed another important point. Banjojohn is right: ship-to-ship combat is carried at ENORMOUS distances. We're not talking few hundred meters, not a couple tens of kilometers. We're talking about tens of thousands kilometers and even more. Probably it's not the best source, but in the book "Nightbringer" from Graham McNeill a space marine strike cruiser shoots a target 300,000km away, and the target was somewhat at it's max range.

And broadsides batteries on a strike cruiser are short ranged.

Consider that ships are "tiny": escorts are 1km long (more or less) and battleships (regular ones XD) can get up to 10. Particularly large ships got up to 19km but are now nearly extinct. Even a very large klaw wouldn't be larger than a few hundred meters.
Look at this for reference

Soooo, no. Orks may defy physics, but they are not completely batshit insane. A ship-to-ship klaw is impractical: you won't be near enough to use it unless you ram something. And guess what: you ram with your prow.


I guess the battles WOULD be carried out at immense distances, but look at the post I just made, they are obviously much closer than what you said. I know the 40k unierse makes more sense than star wars but it doesn't mean it makes more sense than real life, so just chill and let the orks have their power klaws.


Uh, what?
Bring me some reference of ship to ship combat that is carried out at closer distances and i may let the orks have the klaw. Until then, my answer is still no.


look at THE GAME ITSELF because often you can get REALLY close to an enemy ship, close enough for a giant power klaw to snap at it.

Valthic
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Re: Idea.

Postby Valthic » 21 July 2016, 02:27

Of course it looks like that in game. Are you even aware of how things would look if they were on scale?

Should we scale up the map to realistically match ship combat, to follow short range combat you would need to scroll hundreds whole screens, as ships (i'm thinking of cruisers to be precise) would be firing at distances more or less 100,000 times their own lenght.

Minimap would be unreasonably hard to manage, torpedoes and every skill that needs a target to click on would be nigh impossible to use.

Should we scale ships down instead -keeping the distances right then-, no ship would be recognisable on screen and i doubt even Battleships would be big enough to become a single pixel. Maybe the Space Hulk could be deemed worthy of a pixel all of it's own on a 27" screen or bigger.

Oh, and try to use those skills now. Any single pixel away from your intended target is a total miss.


I KNOW that this is a game and nothing else, but please let's just try to stick to lore and to whatever it is reasonable.


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