left hand marines?

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Ashardalon
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left hand marines?

Postby Ashardalon » 17 November 2016, 04:38

viewing the upcoming space hulk footage i was reminded of something that always used to bother me when making models
marines hold their gun in the right hand and their melee weapons in their left
i used to spend a lot of time switching those on every model but as that will probably not be an option on pc i hope someone can give me an answer
why?
i know a decent amount about sword and knife fighting but not a lot about guns
i know that to do the precise movements like parrying you need all the strength and precision you body can give you
meanwhile with all their hydraulic compensators and whatever in their armor, shooting a gun seems like it would be almost as easy as pointing and pulling the trigger
and yes i know marines are almost ambidextrous and all, but i really mean ALL the strength and precision, especially when you are trying to keep a swarmlord from cutting off your head
and when you think about a chapter like space wolfs, those people start practicing knifework from the age of 4 and i assume they use their best hand for it since they dont have a gun to occupy the other one, but looking at space wolf models , just like every other chapter they hold their melee weapons in their left hand
it makes very little sense to me to try and counter a (rather short) life worth of experience and instinctive preference instead of asking the mechanicus for some left handed bolt pistols

does anyone have extensive experience with both guns and blades and explain to me why it would be easier to learn to wield a sword left handed then to shoot a gun left handed
while wielding a blade requires changing of grips, flicking, angling and a ton of other moves i dont know the English words for
a gun seems rather simple: point, shoot
never needing to change grip or... anything, at most a little thumb flick to turn off the safety (if marine bolters even have a safety (do marine bolters have a safety?))
they do hold a regular bolter like a right handed person would so its not like some experiment from the dark age of technology has turned all of humanity lefthanded
it just doesnt make sense to me, help would be greatly appreciated

Aquilar
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Re: left hand marines?

Postby Aquilar » 17 November 2016, 11:04

You ask this when Spacemarines literally spend decades learning how to wield their weaponry and armour among other stuff.

It's with anything, enough practice and you can do anything with either hand.

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Ashardalon
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Re: left hand marines?

Postby Ashardalon » 17 November 2016, 15:05

but their preferred hand will still be better, why not use your best hand for the tool that needs it than a gun that doesnt
i know i cant compare me with a marine but even though i have practiced dual wielding a lot, if my life was on the line i would never trust my left hand over my right
also the worst thing i could be fighting against is another human, the worst they could be fighting against is much much much...... much much worse
im saying that considering what i know about knifework, you cant afford to not give it your all
that includes using your best hand
and why would they train like that, what is so complicated about shooting lefthanded that makes it a better idea to train the precise movements of swordfighting with their left hand
yes they are almost ambidextrous, but almost is not the same as completely

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Scorch715
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Re: left hand marines?

Postby Scorch715 » 17 November 2016, 20:29

The crappy answer is that GW just cast assault marines and terminators with the melee weapons in their left hands. Meanwhile vanguard veterans, Calgar's honour guard, the plastic Captain, and many others (most of the ICs actually, come to think of it) have their blades in their right hand. It just comes down to whoever designed the kits keeping the same arrangement to make modelling easier. Theres no deeper meaning behind it.

However, if you do want a fluffier answer, you could put it down to individual marines keeping what they consider their main weapon in their strong hand. Assault marines may be CQB troops, but they're not full on combat monsters or anything. Their main role is manoeuvre warfare, and when you're leaping around, you probably want your most useful weapon (AKA your ranged weapon) in the hand you can fire with most accurately, while against most foes they face they can rely on being faster and/or stronger, thus not particularly requiring the finer points of swordplay. Contrast that with Vanguard, who drop down from on high to murder the foe's leadership and elites, opponents where they need to quickly and fatally apply all of their skill with blades. Meanwhile, there is literally no reason known to man why a terminator would waste his better hand on a weapon where the main move is the jab when he could be getting double headshots with his stormbolter. ICs have the same reasoning as Vanguard, at least for marines. They seek out enemy leaders for that iconic duel to the death, thus making melee weapons more important (unless you're Pedro Kantor, in which case you have a small calibre Assault Cannon on your wrist and precision isn't necessary)

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Ahzek Ahriman
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Re: left hand marines?

Postby Ahzek Ahriman » 17 November 2016, 22:02

Simplicity, that's the answer.

It's easier and cheaper to make models of the same kind with the same handedness, in computer games it's easier to use 1 animation rather than 2, let alone the question of option to choose either.

It really isn't a matter worth dwelling too much on, just assume marines use whichever hand they feel comfortable with. I am right handed but I prefer doing a lot of things with my left hand, things that most people do with their dominant hand. Disregard any models, especially since it is GW we are talking about.

As for bolters... who knows. There probably are patterns with extractors on left side, or maybe bolters have parts interchangability, after all they are elite troops and will have easier time getting more specialized/personalized equipment (unlike guardsmen, who will more than likely just get standard issue munitorum-friendly set).
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Ashardalon
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Re: left hand marines?

Postby Ashardalon » 17 November 2016, 22:23

makes sense i guess
still looks really weird to me to see a terminator librarian wield his psychic sword in his left hand
hurts my brain a bit, but that might just be a side effect of personal experience screaming about how wrong it is combined with first person view

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Ahzek Ahriman
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Re: left hand marines?

Postby Ahzek Ahriman » 17 November 2016, 23:34

Ashardalon wrote:makes sense i guess
still looks really weird to me to see a terminator librarian wield his psychic sword in his left hand
hurts my brain a bit, but that might just be a side effect of personal experience screaming about how wrong it is combined with first person view


Since, as mentioned, it is GW we are talking here, I suggest the "don't sweat the details" approach.

Tbh, force commanders holding thunder hammers with one hand at the opposite tip of the handle hurt my brain more than everyone using left hand for melee weapons in DoW.
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BrianDavion
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Re: left hand marines?

Postby BrianDavion » 18 November 2016, 05:50

Space Marines are ambidexterious

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Imperator5
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Re: left hand marines?

Postby Imperator5 » 18 November 2016, 15:01

BrianDavion wrote:Space Marines are ambidexterious


To elaborate, this means space marines are experts with both hands. They got two right hands, and their super-hyper-post-human brains can easily do that.

This also applies to the Mechanicus and I think to Eldar and Necrons and Tyranids too.

The only species in 40k that reportedly needs to use a specific hand is unaugmented humans. Again you are making the same mistake as you did in the past, using humans as a baseline in a universe where they are so below the baseline its not even funny.
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Ashardalon
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Re: left hand marines?

Postby Ashardalon » 20 November 2016, 11:53

no they are not
they have a preferred hand
true, a space marine is more ambidextrous than the most ambidextrous human ever
so a human would never notice the difference but if two marines do a duel and one switches to his off hand that will still be an insult
in the space wolf omnibus he switches hands then positions his legs before trowing the spear of Russ
if he was going to switch his legs anyway he could have thrown it with his left hand, if it wasnt a sacred relic he probably would have but since he couldnt afford to make a mistake he used his best hand
they do have a best hand the difference is minimal but there is a difference

the mechanicus are humans so thats just BS, their mechadendrites will be like their preferred hand but they still have a preferred hand , they just tend to replace their worst hand with an augmentic because having a worse hand is a biological weakness

eldar im not sure but they have a brain that has a left and right side similar to humans and so its probable that they do have a preferred hand, although eldar are very conscious about how they move so humans just seem to have two left hands for them so its pretty normal that to a human they will appear ambidextrous, but it is highly unlikely that they are

necrons are robots now so yes now they probably are now , doubt that they where tho
if you look at a destroyer (they are basically nihilistic necrons that have lost their identity and only care about destruction, its an infectious kind of corruption that other necrons somewhat fear similar to the corruption of the flayed ones (might be outdated tho))
they only have a cannon on one hand if they where truly ambidextrous and had that instinctively they would replace both hands with a cannon when turning into a destroyer as they only care about destruction
it makes me think that the original necrothir where not ambidextrous but that was a long time ago

tyranids seems like hive tyrants and lictors would definitely be but it sounds like a waste of resources to go trough the effort for hormagaunts but from looking at zoantropes they dont seem to have a segmented brain which is the cause of having a preferred hand so it could be that they are all ambidextrous

from what i know about orks they actually are ambidextrous but similar to how eldar looking at humans orks tend to be so clumsy that you probably wouldnt notice
but their brain is one mass, one very small mass, so they should be ambidextrous but there is little official data about ork brain composition, looking at the weirdboy crew they do seem to have a split down the middle so maybe they do have a preferred hand

im not using humans as a baseline, i use biology and basic science which have no reason not to be applicable in the 40k multiverse unless there is lore stating otherwise

scorch's explanation seems the best


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