Universal ship comparisons: Executor-Class SSD vs Retribution-Class BB

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CALiGeR190
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Re: Universal ship comparisons: Executor-Class SSD vs Retribution-Class BB

Postby CALiGeR190 » 29 May 2016, 22:34

Rolepgeek wrote:I get that with enough time any ship can Exterminatus. My point is that the Planet Killer is redundant if escorts can destroy entire populations with single shots. As much as we make fun of Abbadon, the Planet Killer was built for a reason, and called such for a reason. 'Because it looks cool' is not the answer, either.

Your hostility really isn't that great, either. 90% of the speed of light is almost the speed of light, you're correct. But 15% of the speed of light is still considered relativistic(and I think you're underestimating just how fast that is), because that's where non-relativistic calculations begin to break down. Kardashev scale III essentially means the civilization controls the entire galaxy, handily, and well enough to harness the energy output of every single star.

My point concerning why planets aren't being blown up literally every time is because the side with less investment in capturing the planet can literally just interpose themselves between their enemy and the planet, and they can't be fired at if you don't want to risk blowing the shit out of the planet, too. Also, power creep in novels=/=good, nor necessarily accurate, especially because it's power creep, and that's how propaganda works.

But I mean, hey, it's all about how you interpret it, so we could all be right. Again, propaganda, so who knows what's right or what's wrong?

I mean, for the purposes of this, it seems like figuring out what statistics would actually make it an interesting comparison instead of '40k curbstomp' would be nice. Though, I suppose we could probably start comparing Culture warships to Imperial Warships, if they actually use those levels of power.

Actually Planet killer really doesn't exist for much more than 'looking cool'... Abadon is just an egotistical idiot. He already has the biggest comisssioned Gloriana Super Battleship (Vengful Spirt) which is larger and in many ways superior to the Planet killer... But this bastard just needed a ship he could call 'his'.

As for the whole clacs thing, yes I frequently change them around (within justifiable limits) to make decent comparisons. You let 40K of the leash, there is very little indeed that compares.
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Re: Universal ship comparisons: Executor-Class SSD vs Retribution-Class BB

Postby Imperator5 » 30 May 2016, 08:32

I think the only justification for planet killer would be that its main gun could overwhelm any planetary defenses like shields. Basically what the Death Star's justification was. Apart from the fact that both Abaddon and Palpatine are the Big Bad and they need the ego-justification of seeing a planet blown to bits, a Victory SD blasting it to Fallout-land is just not enough for supervillain street cred nowdays!

Imperial plasma reactors in newer stuff has star-like power output. One novel mentions a small (10km diameter) astropathic listening station with 4 reactors. Each plasma reactors having " the power output of multiple stars".

But this is what the Imperium does. The Speranza's one, a Dark age of Technology's experimentel dreadnought warship's, is put at the power range of a thousand stars. Compared to that the Imperium has little.

But if you compare things, you either compare equal things, or you don't deliberately mess with the stuff if you choose disproportionate opponents.

I mean, what you are doing is akin to putting Hulk Hogan into the ring with Justin Bieber, and than telling Hogan that he can only stare meanly. If you want a fair fight, perhaps don't put Hogan and Bieber in the same ring.

I could do the same thing. There is that anime Dragonball guy who can blow up galaxies with Curse-ye-hame-ha and Megas XLR can unleash a fire that consumes a planet. Both of those are something 40k does not have. The great and Mighty Nimbus has "universe destroyer" missiles and they got robots that biomechanically reproduce. I bet Grievious and Necrons are jealous of the latter...and propably the former too.

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If this guy's ship can blow up universes, even anime is best to retreat. And that's before figuring in that the Planet Express's headlights could burn Deep space Nine up if turned to the highest setting. That's not even a weapon. Or when construction workers blow up planets with basic construction equipment.... or when Leo Wong reshapes a good portion of the galaxy JUST so he can play interplanetary minigolf. 40k got nothing on that, nor even Starkiller base.
And the people of OMICRON PERSEI EIGHT (always yelled) can curbstomp the DOOP easily.
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Re: Universal ship comparisons: Executor-Class SSD vs Retribution-Class BB

Postby Beernchips » 31 May 2016, 17:15

Well if 1 Retri broadside can destroy a planet, it should instantly vaporize 10km ships length of any of the BFG ship. As ships are often only crippled during fights even when BBs are engaged, it is clearly overexageration from firepower of ships
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Re: Universal ship comparisons: Executor-Class SSD vs Retribution-Class BB

Postby Imperator5 » 31 May 2016, 18:58

Beernchips wrote:Well if 1 Retri broadside can destroy a planet, it should instantly vaporize 10km ships length of any of the BFG ship. As ships are often only crippled during fights even when BBs are engaged, it is clearly overexageration from firepower of ships


That does not factor in the advanced hull materials nor the shielding. Remember, these things got armour of dozens or hundreds of meters of sci-fi unobtanium and some form of advanced that may or may not be warp-tech shields.
It is consistent actually, if the Terminus Est can take more than 1 Nova shot to the hull, even with Nurgle's Snotty help. Or if we take into account the given heat for plasma weaponry is 100M Kelvins.
If the armour was not unnaturally good, even a space marine's plasma gun would melt through ship hulls. So there is consitency in it if you look for it. Which is as much as one can ask from fantasy-scifi like these.
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Re: Universal ship comparisons: Executor-Class SSD vs Retribution-Class BB

Postby Rolepgeek » 01 June 2016, 00:45

Speaking of which, where are you getting that plasma weapons are a hundred million kelvins? Everything I've seen has them more around 10,000-100,000 Kelvin at most. I certainly wouldn't use 'core of the sun' as my base for plasma weaponry. Melta, sure. Not view of the sun, though.

Although, if they're that tough, it begs the question of how a solar flare coming on their direction can possibly do anything to them.

Also the question of why they don't turn the crust of planets into magical supermaterial. Though, again, as far as I was aware, even a Retribution only had three or four metre thick armor at most, save for the prow.

But yes, I think you're using the high end calcs. I tend to call BS on those statistics anyway, since my disbelief gets real hard to suspend at that point.

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Re: Universal ship comparisons: Executor-Class SSD vs Retribution-Class BB

Postby Inspector of War » 05 June 2016, 20:01

I have a very limited understanding of how plasma works (read: I skimmed a bit on the Wikipeds), so correct me if I'm wrong.

A plasma torch can reach temperatures of 45,000 Fahrenheit. Converted, this is approximately 25,000 degrees Kelvin. Granted, this is only used for a small jet of plasma to cut through a sheet of metal, such as steel or copper.

The materials in 40k used for ship construction, such as plasteel, ceramite, and adamantium, are rated to be much stronger than what is used for 21st century construction. Add to the observation of how colossal weapons batteries are, and the targets they are firing at... you get the idea. So really, temperatures of 100,000 Kelvin might be the bare minimum required to punch through a battleship and cause lasting damage.

Edit: the HELL is a plane torch?! Damn autocorrect...
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Re: Universal ship comparisons: Executor-Class SSD vs Retribution-Class BB

Postby Kadaeux » 05 June 2016, 23:52

Rolepgeek wrote:Also the question of why they don't turn the crust of planets into magical supermaterial. Though, again, as far as I was aware, even a Retribution only had three or four metre thick armor at most, save for the prow.


Hell no, even cruisers are typically described as having hulls tens of metres thick with prows significantly thicker than that (for the Imperial Navy anyway.) Ships in 40k have absurdly thick hulls. (Probably not all that absurd when you factor in how strong they want the hull to A: Resist weapons fire and B: Be able to resist turning that much mass.)

You also have to factor in that, by BFG terms, the armour of a ship isn't something ablative. Assuming it's vaguely representative, a Chaos or Imperial cruiser's hull (on average, not including the prow) will utterly IGNORE a hit that'd "behead mountains" two out of every 3 times. The prow of Imperial vessels shrug off that five out of every six times.


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