Universal ship comparisons: Intrepid-Class Starship vs Iconoclast Destroyer

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Formosa
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Re: Universal ship comparisons: Intrepid-Class Starship vs Iconoclast Destroyer

Postby Formosa » 22 July 2016, 15:36

CALiGeR190 wrote:
Formosa wrote:I totally agree, problem is borg can assimilate planets at an exponential rate, and the IOM response time is agonisingly slow by trek standard (even though 40k has faster, if unreliable ships) trek also has much better coms, if shorter ranged (borg don't suffer this issue, as its both better ranged and faster than 40k) and don't suffer the "interpretation" issue IOM coms do, so response time is better for the borg, theyd detect the IOM sectors away and just fade before any response could come.. the response that would be decades away at best.

So Borg have better coms, sensors, exponential growth, can take your best tech, adapt it and improve on it.

IOM has, Faster galactic travel, numbers, better tech (in some areas) but this advantage wont last long.

either way, agree or disagree, it would be a good match up!!

In the long run, yes it would, but any direct conflict in the short or mid term would be laughably one-sided if the Imperium treated them as an adequately high threat.
The Imperium may react slowly, but if they want something gone within their own borders, it gets done with relatively high speed. And if the decision to remove the Borg with all haste is unanimous, an Imperial Battlefleet can be down your throat in less than a week with full Titan and IG support. If its in Space Marine territory, even quicker.

And, again, this is ignoring other factions.


My apologies, but the IOM has NEVER been stated as having a 1 week response time, if a response is even available, I'm not debating your comment that it would be laughably one sided in the short to mid term, I agree, but IOM response time, even when willing, is very very long in trek terms, borg can assimilate planets in days to weeks, IOM response is months to years, unless some battlefleet happens to be passing by or just in the area.

I also agree that the imperials when they want something dead, it happens, but again, slowly, and remember, everything you throw at the borg, they will eventually throw back at you, but better, that's there thing, the IOM would need to stop the snow ball very quickly or simply be outgunned to such an extent there numbers would be worthless, you cant kill what you cant hurt.

either way, good debate so far :)

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CALiGeR190
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Re: Universal ship comparisons: Intrepid-Class Starship vs Iconoclast Destroyer

Postby CALiGeR190 » 22 July 2016, 15:53

Formosa wrote:My apologies, but the IOM has NEVER been stated as having a 1 week response time, if a response is even available, I'm not debating your comment that it would be laughably one sided in the short to mid term, I agree, but IOM response time, even when willing, is very very long in trek terms, borg can assimilate planets in days to weeks, IOM response is months to years, unless some battlefleet happens to be passing by or just in the area.

I also agree that the imperials when they want something dead, it happens, but again, slowly, and remember, everything you throw at the borg, they will eventually throw back at you, but better, that's there thing, the IOM would need to stop the snow ball very quickly or simply be outgunned to such an extent there numbers would be worthless, you cant kill what you cant hurt.

either way, good debate so far :)

In extreme cases, it can be weeks (possibly even less so), it completely depends on Warp currents and how quickly an agreement can be met and forces mobilised. The warp distorts time, as you may be aware, but this can work both ways. There have been instances of Imperial reinforcements arriving before they where called for, as the warp physically jumps ships forward in the timeline in real-space.
This Means that if the Imperium can get together within, say, a month: they can be there either immediately or even several weeks early (or several centuries late... Warp travel is completely random).
So its entirely possible the Imperium can catch the borg and crush them long before they can get established. So be it unreliably.

Also the snow ball effect can work both ways.
The Imperium has a near-infinite supply of men and munitions to throw at any given target. In the event that the Borg have started to get the ball rolling, say its taken months for a response to arrive, then basically the fight with the Borg becomes another war-zone for the Imperium that will rage on for many centuries or even millennia... The Imperium will simply keep feeding ships, men and weapons into the fray, replace losses and start developing weapons and tactics to counter the new threat (all be it slowly). Basically ruining the chance for the Borg to get anywhere quickly and potentially crushing them over sheer weight of power over time.
The Imperium is very capable of stopping, or at least slowing, snow ball effects. They have experience of doing such against the Necrons and Tyanids.
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Formosa
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Re: Universal ship comparisons: Intrepid-Class Starship vs Iconoclast Destroyer

Postby Formosa » 22 July 2016, 19:22

CALiGeR190 wrote:
Formosa wrote:My apologies, but the IOM has NEVER been stated as having a 1 week response time, if a response is even available, I'm not debating your comment that it would be laughably one sided in the short to mid term, I agree, but IOM response time, even when willing, is very very long in trek terms, borg can assimilate planets in days to weeks, IOM response is months to years, unless some battlefleet happens to be passing by or just in the area.

I also agree that the imperials when they want something dead, it happens, but again, slowly, and remember, everything you throw at the borg, they will eventually throw back at you, but better, that's there thing, the IOM would need to stop the snow ball very quickly or simply be outgunned to such an extent there numbers would be worthless, you cant kill what you cant hurt.

either way, good debate so far :)

In extreme cases, it can be weeks (possibly even less so), it completely depends on Warp currents and how quickly an agreement can be met and forces mobilised. The warp distorts time, as you may be aware, but this can work both ways. There have been instances of Imperial reinforcements arriving before they where called for, as the warp physically jumps ships forward in the timeline in real-space.
This Means that if the Imperium can get together within, say, a month: they can be there either immediately or even several weeks early (or several centuries late... Warp travel is completely random).
So its entirely possible the Imperium can catch the borg and crush them long before they can get established. So be it unreliably.

Also the snow ball effect can work both ways.
The Imperium has a near-infinite supply of men and munitions to throw at any given target. In the event that the Borg have started to get the ball rolling, say its taken months for a response to arrive, then basically the fight with the Borg becomes another war-zone for the Imperium that will rage on for many centuries or even millennia... The Imperium will simply keep feeding ships, men and weapons into the fray, replace losses and start developing weapons and tactics to counter the new threat (all be it slowly). Basically ruining the chance for the Borg to get anywhere quickly and potentially crushing them over sheer weight of power over time.
The Imperium is very capable of stopping, or at least slowing, snow ball effects. They have experience of doing such against the Necrons and Tyanids.



In extreme cases, it can be weeks (possibly even less so)

That's just not true, you will need to cite it, as every reference to IOM response time I have ever read puts them at minimum, months, and warp shenanigans are not a factor in this, otherwise we would need to work out if trek warp or 40k warp are being used, borg use neither technically (transwarp is more like the webway) lol.

As I said before, imperial numbers would mean nothing if the borg get to the stage where they have adapted to imperial weapons and tactics, borg need to be smashed quickly and efficiently, something the IOM has proven it cannot do time and again, if we involve any of the other races it gets even more strange, can borg assimilate nids? can nids absorb the borg without the nanites infecting them? are the super human bodies of marines able to resist assimilation? orks? Tau are easy, they would be rolled in under a century, they rely on energy weapons, so the borg would be immune in short order, then we have the eldar, sure they can be assimilated, but they have better tech and can hide quite well, lastly we have possibly the biggest threat to the borg, the crons, because as far as I know they are more advanced on every level than the borg.

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Re: Universal ship comparisons: Intrepid-Class Starship vs Iconoclast Destroyer

Postby McNash » 26 July 2016, 05:06

As ever with these kind of debates things are quite subjective, and it really depends to where you want to bet, for example, there have been entries in 40k fluff where the Imperium has suffered the lose of hundreds of worlds or have fleets attacking Terra itself. Yet given their own size and resources the Imperium has managed to endure and beat back the menace, the 41st millennium has proved a dire age because the amount of enemies mankind is facing have grown exponentially, and the human race itself is in the brink of a dangerous evolutionary leap, you know things are totally screwed up when your own DNA may betray you.
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