Neighbor's Ultimate Idea, Suggestion, wishlist thread.

Share your ideas and suggestions for Battlefleet Gothic: Armada.
Neighbor Kid
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Neighbor's Ultimate Idea, Suggestion, wishlist thread.

Postby Neighbor Kid » 24 January 2017, 03:10

Prepare your self for a wall of text.

Hey all, just like you, I want this game to succeed very badly. I've watched this game since I first heard about it... I was dreaming of a video game edition of BFG for the longest. Especially since all BFG mods for every other game just die out. I cant tell you how many Sins of a Solar Empire BFG mods die... its just a shame. It sucks that our Multiplayer base is dead.. but I'm still playing heck out of skirmish, but at some points it really just gets to repetitive. So below are some ideas and thoughts of how to improve, or make the game better.. this will also have thoughts that we all want that the community have been asking for, for ever!.

I'm writing this because we finally have someone that can actually respond to us from the devs or relay something. Looking at a bunch of the devs profiles, like Ravensburg... he hasn't been online since October.. it kills all of us that communication with the dev team has essentially dissipated, but with Blexus stepping in, i feel we may have something/ someone to work with here.

1- The Most obvious that gets asked....More points! While 700 point cruiser clashes are ok for... exactly that.. I think the majority of us want to see fleet engagements. Ranging from 1000-2000 points.

1A- What we know is an issue with this many points- 1 lag... While We know that multiple ships involved in various rams can cause some issues, for the most part the game honestly does not lag all that much. Though in this case We all know some optimization needs to be done for this to happen. @ Blexus, can you tell us if the devs are doing anything to work with optimization?

1B- Maps sizes- If we are to see a leap in points which I seriously hope we see at some point, we will need larger maps... We don't want giant fleet of escorts just encompassing the size of maps we have now for fleet scale engagements.

1C- A lot of peeps seem to think that micro would be way out of control in a larger battle.. while this is a very heavily micro management game... I say that others are just as much if not more demanding in micro. For instance take Total war.. that game is on both a small and large level of management. Everything you do can influence that game, but there is also a reason why the game has a slow down option... same as tactical cogitators... it is really useful. Also from the stand point, the AI would need some reworking IMO.. At least from an Imperial stand point... the AI is not all that great, while yes they will use some skills here n there, they wont use MWJ, Reload, or maneuvers like high energy turn or all ahead full.. They don't. Looking at Eldar AI, they just suck.... Eldar are a high risk high reward fleet and while they have punishing weapons, they do not have the ability to take a pounding like an Imperial fleet does, and risk too much and they get rammed and pummeled. The AI is no challenge when they play eldar... All I need to do is wait for them to come in and I ram them to win. They really need a rework. Over all AI does need a bit of rework to be in bigger battles so the player does not have to be a super micro legend to handle his fleet.. I also need to mention that the AI will just fly through asteroid and mine fields... they just drive straight through them.. there is no logic to his madness!

1D- The spam of favors that allow a ship to call in endless escorts... this is very badly broken. While I've faced fleets that have nothing but say Imperial favor.. calling in an escort ship every 180 seconds is bad for play.. This needs to be limited.. when you face a fleet built on nothing but spamming this favor, it is just not fun, and at a fleet scale engagement.. would not be fun, unless you are that loser of a troll. This favor should be limited to 2 ships per fleet at the max IMO. What do you all think?

M2- (Minor 2) While I feel this is unecessary, I think we will see all the fleets, the Devs did point out that in the end they want to have all the fleets.. So I don't really think this needs to truly take the place of thought 2.

R2(Real 2) - I feel this game is lacking in the department of ships. There just is not enough of them. I feel there is most definitely room. Can we see some ship packs as DLC? I'm not asking for these to be free... heck I'd pay like 20 bucks for additional ships(should their be enough of them).. Where to find these ships... Well Imperial and Chaos are super simple.. Heck.. you can turn current IN ships to CN ships by make them heretical looking... but in reality.. for actual new ships/ configurations.. there are plenty scattered through the BFG rulebooks, campaigns, Forgeworld, and Fluff.

3- More Mission types- I want to reference my Escalating engagement thread here viewtopic.php?f=17&t=22618 .. I think this would be a great game type idea. I still whole heartily disagree with it being clunky.. besides the fact of placing new ships.. its nothing like base building. Starting a game with 200-300 points worth of ships.. with a max cap of 1200-1500 points of ships picked for the fight.. I'd say every 3 minutes a new 200-300 points of ships appear... to a max at 1 time being 700 points on the board..

4- More dynamics to a map. Moving obstructions, or more dangers on the field. It was brought up in my new games types thread of say moving asteroid fields.. while some players I can imagine being a bit annoyed... it helps to constant change the field of battle. I wouldn't have asteroid fields moving very quickly.. have them move at about 25 or as slow as an imperial ship with it's engines destroyed. I think that would work.

4A- Additional obstructions... Warp Rifts.. This could be a tear in the space or the map.. literally a super dark spot.. nothing but pitch black with say tentacles of the warp around it.. or perhaps somethings randomly spewing out of it in terms of eye candy.. But I feel this could be as used in BFG TT..as a way to redeploy a ship.. with in certain distances away from the rift.. or even destroy your ships.. it's risky, but sometimes worth the shot to get away from your opponent. I first suggested any ship going into this rift could face a 50/50 chance of being destroyed.. I would turn that to 80/20... I think that's semi fair.. The idea of the rift would be to redeploy about 20000 units away.. or perhaps , to restart from the map edge you came in on. The 20 %.. your ship is lost in the warp.. either forever or for a few turns like we have already in game. It could be less by having your navigator upgraded I'd say. It would give the navigator more interest in putting upgrade points into. Also torpedoes or weapons that fire towards it and end up going into the rift can be destroyed or just lost.

5- Multiplayer persistence- We all know the issues with this.. there are a few ways of dealing with this in my eyes IMO..

5A-1.. Limit the admiral level to play against who.. as in only have a level 1 admiral play against 1-3 admirals.. have level 3 play against 1,2,3,4,5,6. what I would say.. is only have level 8 admirals play against level 8 admirals.. I think that is just the main issue It's not fun, nor is it good game design to just play against someone with all lvl 10 ships.. I have an IN admiral and all my ships are lvl 10.. its just a stomping against even level 7 admirals. This needs to stop..

5B- Another idea and it's been pointed out before.. is to get ride of the match maker.. Put in a server finder.. let us create the game or room. Let us choose the game type. When another player joins.. the game auto launches into the screen that lets us build our fleet composition just like in the current match maker. I think this would be a decent solution to retain players or let lower level players rank up with out having to feel that they are just being rofl stomped. With this idea, I would not give players the ability to create room names. We don't want to see Game A- NO TORPEDO SPAM!.. B NO ORKS... C NO BLANK FAVOR SPAM... We don't need that.

5C- Get rid of Persistence all together until a decent solution can be found. Because it's not working.. while this game is rather niche, I don't think it's nearly as niche as everyone thinks it is. I just think that the MP: P is broke.

6- Audio Cues- This I have found to be of moderate frustration. While it has been improved, I feel there needs to be some more. Audio cues done right could really help with a few different matters. For 1, if we get increased points, it could inform us better if say one of our capital ships has it's shields down( which could be announced by the voice that does the tech priest) or a weapons system being destroyed(could be voiced by the master gunner) A We're being boarded!(Ratings) etc.. This would help us greatly in managing our fleet especially if some of them are not in our direct field of view. Too much of it could be bad though. It would need some balance.

7- Coop Campaign- I heard this a while back before release of the game, that in the end the campaign was supposed to be 2 player coop. I'd love if Co-op came in. My thought about how it would work... hmm.. well can be done a couple ways.

7A- Both players play as the IN, and every match is split in half just like in normal multiplayer battles ( though I would like an increase in points overall as outlined in the beginning of this thread.

7B- Player A can be the IN and player B can be a Space Marine contingent.

8- New campaign.. not just form a story perspective, but a whole new style. I would like to suggest something similar to the CTW of Total War, or say DOW Dark Crusade map.

8A- Total War Style- Have a base planet/system/port maw esk area.. Create flagships with admirals, and build fleet compositions and move out that way just like in total war. This idea would have to work with a couple things.. 1 more points, 2 bigger maps... etc.. There would need to be things like defense buildings, or perhaps certain game types could be representative of some type of battles. This would be fantastic to have a coop campaign with. Be it another battlefleet of the IN, or a Space Marine Contingent.. Multiple Ork clans etc. would the idea of researching upgrades or modifications be something in which the community would find interesting, or should this just be done with the ships per the fleet upgrades? As in.. Fleet A has fought several battles, and while several ships were lost the other surviving ones gain so much to their skill for their commissar, master gunner, weapons/ tech upgrades etc.

8B- DOW DC- If I recall in DOW DC (its been a LOOONG time) you could have 1 base fleet, and every location you conquer have a standing planetary defense fleet/ defense platforms and such. I will have to do more research into this.. I could be entirely wrong here, but I'm running out of time writing this.

9- Mod tools...
Last edited by Neighbor Kid on 25 January 2017, 02:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Blexus Falconer
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Re: Neighbor's Ultimate Idea, Suggestion, wishlist thread.

Postby Blexus Falconer » 24 January 2017, 17:15

Greetings Neighbor Kid,

Wow! This is a serious list of suggestions! Ton of good ideas here even if some are more like bug reports. :P

I will try to answer your points as thoroughly as I can:

1 - Indeed this point is the most asked since I have started to collect your thoughts. ;) It has been escalated to the Dev Team.
1A - Of course if there is a fleet size increasement, we will do a verification check and optimize if necessary. But according to my knowledge, there is nothing about that for now.
1B - Map size improvement is also one of the most common suggestion we receive so it was my duty to let the Dev Team know about it. ;)
1C - Micro management in BFG currently feels just right to us. Again, if there is an increase of the fleet's size, we will check if the fleet management needs to be adjusted.
Regarding the AI, we have run some tests and it seems that it does maneuver properly and the programmers are double-checking that as we speak.
1D - As you said, the spam of favors is a known issue but for now, nothing was planned to face this problem. I have warned the staff about it though.
R2 - There is a great variety of ships in BFG you are right about that. However, for gameplay design purposes, we chose to include just some of them. To be honest, this suggestion is fairly common and I have already submitted it to the high-command. ;)
3 - I should have answered your thread earlier - sorry about that - You do not need to submit a perfect idea. and it doesn't cost anything to submit your point of view to the Game Design Dept. They will decide what is relevant and what is not.
4 - Very good idea! Submitted.
5A - This one is quite tricky as the player base is not that large: If we had a larger player base, we might have used another match making system. Currently the system tries to match players with approximately the same level but if you wait too long to find an opponent, you will end up fighting against the first player in queue no matter what level he is.
5B - We are thinking about another system for the match making and this can be a way out. Submitted.
5C - Can be a good thing in Multiplayer but it won't happen in the Campaign mod. All the solo progression is based on this system. Submitted anyway.
6 - This was a game design decision to avoid audio spamming. I escalated your request but I honestly doubt it will be adjusted.
7, 7A, 7B, 8, 8A - Those suggestions are very interesting and were transmitted.
9 - I am currently trying to get you a mod tool but I won't have any answer on the subject until next month: we need to speak with Focus Home Interactive and Games Workshop about the legal aspect of that mod.

Thank you very much for your input. :)
A moment of Laxity spawns a lifetime of Heresy.

Neighbor Kid
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Re: Neighbor's Ultimate Idea, Suggestion, wishlist thread.

Postby Neighbor Kid » 27 January 2017, 04:15

I disagree with AI maneuvering properly. Plenty of games especially see it more often in Elite mode, where the AI just pushes their ships through the minefields and asteroid fields to get to your ships faster.. I'll post a video when it happens next.

Might I also suggest a different looking prow for ships that have the ram upgrade? The older Prows looks menacing.

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Ashardalon
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Re: Neighbor's Ultimate Idea, Suggestion, wishlist thread.

Postby Ashardalon » 27 January 2017, 15:56

same
i have noticed AI completely ignoring minefields and just running straight trough them to get at you
especially in elite, but also in regular
when they are at the other side of the map you can often hear an explosion and see a blip disappear
i think its more probable in elite just because they travel in a strait line and the chance there is a minefield on that line increases as there are more lines
they just seem completely unaware of them

less frequent but also happening is them getting stuck against one of those asteroidcolony's
i have noticed similar behavior from my ships if i tell them to move past one closely, but i can high-energy-turn them out of being stuck (or just all ahead full as the pathing is kinda paranoid), the AI doesnt seem to realize so stays stuck until the pathing naturally turns them out of it very slowly and that takes quite a while
enough to separate a ship from the fleet and kill it as eldar

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Blexus Falconer
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Re: Neighbor's Ultimate Idea, Suggestion, wishlist thread.

Postby Blexus Falconer » 27 January 2017, 16:16

I remember that bug report you have made Ashardalon and this kind of behavior was indeed reported to the Dev Team as a bug.

But when I say it maneuvers properly, I was talking about MWJ, reload, or high energy turns for example: We've checked and those kind of movements work quite well for the AI.

Now if you witness the opposite, do not hesitate to make a short video to show us what is going on.
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Neighbor Kid
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Neighbors Update to ultimate wishlist.

Postby Neighbor Kid » 04 March 2017, 21:14

Additions to The Ultimate idea thread-

2v2 is ok, but I have several friends, and I know a bunch of the rest of our community who want to play with their friends and fight the AI. Now we already have skirmish and elite battles mode which are great and all, but I think and this has been pointed out before, but a survival mode, much like the DOW 2 Last Stand.

Neighbors Last Stand ideas-

A- Start with Light Cruiser. ranks 1- 10 Fight with your light cruiser while choosing 1 upgrade, 1 skill, 1 crew point after every round. Skills to max out at 5 skills for the duration of the overall ship tier wave. (with 1 favor chosen at the conclusion of waves 5/16/28/)

Example Say my 3 other buddies and my self are all playing with Dauntless light cruisers- After the end of Wave 1, I would give it about a 30-60 second delay before the start of a new round, this would allow time for a choice of 1 upgrade, 1 Skill, and delegate 1 point to your crew. This timing should also be enough to regroup. Ships also begin to generate health, and repair destroyed sections of the vessel.

With this concept in mind, I would suggest that the Emergency repair button be on a cool down of no more than 60 seconds. Subsystems damaged would act as normal and be repaired after a repair button use, I would suggest any destroyed elements of the ship be wrecked for the duration of the entire wave. An Alternative... Warping out to save your self if you ship is critically damaged. If any of you recall, from the first trailer of this game, they originally had it or said that you can warp out your ship and warp back in after undergoing repairs. I think this is a great idea to instill back into the game for this game mode.

For warping out for repairs- 2 ideas-
1- Warping out grants your ship repairs to any destroyed compartments, and gives you full health at the cost of 120 seconds before warping back in. I think that would be sufficient time to let your buddies be alone in combat. Forfeit of any upgrades, skills, crew skill for this turn.

2- Warping out saves your ship and auto repairs, but you do not get to return to this wave. You will automatically return the next wave. In doing so, you forfeit yourself to +1 round of using this ship before you get to upgrade when you hit the next tier level. Still granted an upgrade, skill, but no crew skill.

Boss Fight- Round 11- For Light cruiser fight I would suggest a Battle Cruiser(s) that would be a tad bit stronger than normal to be accompanies by ships of lesser tier as their escorts.

Round 11- For the players I would suggest granting them 1 escort vessel for support during this wave.

Upon victory of this round, the players would be granted a new vessel. Depending if they warped out for repairs at all during the middle of rounds 1-10. If they warped out, they would receive their new ship at the conclusion of wave/round 12.

Ship replacement- When it is time for you to be granted a new ship, you get 25 seconds when a menu appears, (in between rounds) during this time your current ship's warp drives will be starting up to warp out, upon the timer hitting 0 your ship enters the warp and a new ship warps in(what ever you chosen, or if failed to choose, 1 will be randomly given to you) No upgrades, no crew skills, no skills. Start the process over.

Players got their ships destroyed- During waves in which a player loses their ship, they are out for the duration of this round. This makes team work imperative, unlike reviving your buddies in DOW 2's Last Stand, you don't exactly get to revive a ship. Should the rest of the team succeed in this wave, the dead player respawns/ warps in, at the middle of the map. For this new turn they don't get this crew skill, upgrades, or skills until they survived this next wave. Upon completion of the following wave if alive they will be granted back all their upgrades, skills, crew points. Losing your ship automatically pushes your new ship upgrade back 1 wave. Again this idea of pushing back upgrades etc is to bring in the feeling of brutality and harsh lessons of failure! Also possible leads to more team work as the enemy waves get stronger and stronger... no one wants to be left behind!

Rounds 12-22 During this set of waves the players would able to choose the following ships. Cruiser, or Battle Cruisers depending up on which faction they are playing as.

Round 23- Boss fight- This level the players will face off against stronger than normal Battleship(s) and their escorting ships.

Round 23- Players granted 1 escort vessel for support.

Rounds 24-35- The players will be given the choice to play as their faction's battleship.

Round 36- Boss Fight... In this fight I would suggest it' be random... Be it an Ork Rok, Chaos Planetkiller, Black stone Fortress, Imperial Ramallies Space Station... introduce a few new elite ships like the Imperial Leviathan, Eldar Craftworld, Necron World Engine/Tombship, Space Marines Rock from the Dark Angels, Tyranid...uh not sure for them... This would be done at random.

With this idea in mind, there are a few issues I'd like to raise-
1- Would players rather start from Escort ships? Thus the first boss fight could be against a cruiser, and from that point it just pushes back all the round/waves sets back by 10.

2- There is an issue with ship leveling, Some factions as it stand do not have battle cruisers- Like Space marines- They get an additional cruiser slot in persistent games.. This is a problem. Orks have a Battlecrusier in the rulebook, we all know Imperial navy does, Chaos Does... so this is a bit of a problem. Would is rather be the cruiser level, be either cruiser or battle cruiser choice as I have it written here?

Option B-

Players Choose 1 vessel each to start, this could all be slotted. So you have 1 slot for a Battleship, 1 for Battle Cruiser, and 2 for either Light Cruiser or Cruiser.

At the conclusion of rounds 1-10 instead of being given 3 items to upgrades, players are only given 1. You either get an upgrade, skill, Crew Point, or Favor.

A ships baseline max upgrades with out favors is 5, Skills 5, and 10 Crew points. Just like normal in persistent mode.

Enemy waves I would keep along the same lines as above.

Warping out- To save your ship if you decide to warp out for repairs, I would suggest that the player stays out for the duration of the round. If a player warps out, they do not get an bonus upgrades or anything at the conclusion of the round. I would not suggest getting to warp back in during the same round.

Player Destroyed ship- If a player loses a ship in this idea of Last Stand, I would suggest the same idea, no upgrades, or crew skills, favors for this round, if the player survives the next wave, they get all their points back, so instead of just giving it, the player can re choose their upgrades and such.

Boss rounds- I still suggest giving the player 1 support escort vessel.

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Ashardalon
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Re: Neighbor's Ultimate Idea, Suggestion, wishlist thread.

Postby Ashardalon » 05 March 2017, 02:24

so many repairs in a survival mode
why not keep it a challenge?
no repairs, no retreat, no surrender, only in death does duty end in a glorious explosion!
make it hard to survive! or atleast have a hardcore mode that doesnt have all those gifts from the Emprah
make winning something to be proud of
and even if you dont survive make reaching a certain wave be something you can brag about
:/ best have a easy mode too i guess, learning curve is steep enough as is i guess

Neighbor Kid
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Re: Neighbor's Ultimate Idea, Suggestion, wishlist thread.

Postby Neighbor Kid » 05 March 2017, 04:12

Thing is, when you lose weapon systems to RNG, it can seriously hamper your ship. While I didn't explain the number of enemies.. I should have, but I was thinking for 4 players.. They should face starting from say 8-12 ships to about 25 ranging from all types of ship classes. Perhaps youre right that it may be too easy, but still there should be a way to disengage from battle and repair. The idea of so many waves, I don't think anyone could beat it if there wasn't certain abilities that are exaggerated like the repair and warp jump.


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