Replacing Space Marine Favor

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Mr Morden
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Re: Replacing Space Marine Favor

Postby Mr Morden » 14 June 2016, 16:40

Adepta Sororitas - the Sisters of Battle would be effective in ship baording actions as they have similar wepaons to the Astartes (Marines) - short range, heavy firepower, lot and lots of flamers and are well protected against the void as they too wear power armour

They even have jump pack armed Sisters.

be great to see them as a favour :)
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Ahzek Ahriman
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Re: Replacing Space Marine Favor

Postby Ahzek Ahriman » 14 June 2016, 18:31

Mr Morden wrote:Adepta Sororitas - the Sisters of Battle would be effective in ship baording actions as they have similar wepaons to the Astartes (Marines) - short range, heavy firepower, lot and lots of flamers and are well protected against the void as they too wear power armour

They even have jump pack armed Sisters.

be great to see them as a favour :)


They wouldn't be even close to as effective as Marines in boarding (and they have already been nerfed to almost non-existence), their power armour is significantly inferior to Astartes (due to lack of black carapace, it's weaker and not controlled so well), and they do not have a fleet of their own. They can be part of the Ecclesiarchy, which can in turn lease a warship from Imperial Navy. And that's stretching it. I suggested such the idea myself actually, the Ecclesiarchy favour. But not sisters of battle on their own, it just doesn't work like that, and can't work like that in 40k.

I can imagine Retribution battleship controlled by space marine chapter or taen over by some douche inquisitor, but definitely not Retribution controlled by SoB.

And if they would indeed be one out of 2 skills given by potential Ecclesiarchy favour, it should not be more powerful than Astartes, +5 troop value at most but no bonus to boarding actions because unlike Marines, they are not elite specialized shock troops.
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tabbehim
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Re: Replacing Space Marine Favor

Postby tabbehim » 14 June 2016, 19:16

And why not using the adepta psykana? :P

Some expert psyker coming from the nobilites and some psykana prima here to disrupt the possibilitie of Lightning strike from other ship and slow down the foe warp jump :twisted:
you shall no flee ! :twisted:
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Mr Morden
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Re: Replacing Space Marine Favor

Postby Mr Morden » 14 June 2016, 22:33

Ahzek Ahriman wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:Adepta Sororitas - the Sisters of Battle would be effective in ship baording actions as they have similar wepaons to the Astartes (Marines) - short range, heavy firepower, lot and lots of flamers and are well protected against the void as they too wear power armour

They even have jump pack armed Sisters.

be great to see them as a favour :)


They wouldn't be even close to as effective as Marines in boarding (and they have already been nerfed to almost non-existence), their power armour is significantly inferior to Astartes (due to lack of black carapace, it's weaker and not controlled so well), and they do not have a fleet of their own. They can be part of the Ecclesiarchy, which can in turn lease a warship from Imperial Navy. And that's stretching it. I suggested such the idea myself actually, the Ecclesiarchy favour. But not sisters of battle on their own, it just doesn't work like that, and can't work like that in 40k.

I can imagine Retribution battleship controlled by space marine chapter or taen over by some douche inquisitor, but definitely not Retribution controlled by SoB.

And if they would indeed be one out of 2 skills given by potential Ecclesiarchy favour, it should not be more powerful than Astartes, +5 troop value at most but no bonus to boarding actions because unlike Marines, they are not elite specialized shock troops.


Sadly lots of errors

Their armour - as noted in the codex provides the same level of protection as Asartes armour - thats according to GW.
It does not provide a strength bonus and soem other areas but otherwise they are the same.

They have their own ships - again according to GW so yes it does work like that

And yep they are in fact Elite Specalised Shock troops - they just arn't superhuman.

Apart from that - spot on...........

I had understood that the favour is exactly that - a link to the given organisation which allows you to use their colours - so a AM favour shows links and connections with the Am not an AM ships - smae as the Asartes.

so a Church Favour would simply be favour with it and hence having some Sororitas on board makes perfect sense.
Imperial - Lady Lukara (8), Chaos - Abraxus (8), Eldar - Flower of Carnage (2) , Orks - Big Bazza (6), Wolve - Floki (6) :mrgreen:

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Ahzek Ahriman
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Re: Replacing Space Marine Favor

Postby Ahzek Ahriman » 15 June 2016, 13:13

Mr Morden, thank you for your reply, allow me to clear up just how many "errors" of mine you have found.

Mr Morden wrote:Their armour - as noted in the codex provides the same level of protection as Asartes armour - thats according to GW.
It does not provide a strength bonus and soem other areas but otherwise they are the same.


Yes, you are exactly right. But where did I write anything about level of protection? I said they are significantly weaker, and they are, which you have pointed out yourself. I know they are similarly resillient, but the difference in efficiency is just through the roof.

Mr Morden wrote:They have their own ships - again according to GW so yes it does work like that


Hmm, I really wonder just how many batttleships and battlecruisers (or even cruisers for that matter) the Sororitas have... damn, they probably could count their light cruisers with fingers. Their own ships are mostly their own transports, and perhaps some light warships like frigates or very light cruisers. Other than that, it's only whatever they can borrow from IN through Ecclesiarchy, I think we agree on this one too.
And afaik, the focus of BGA is on proper warships of the Imperium, which are very highly unlikely to belong to Adepta Sororitas as their own property.

Mr Morden wrote:And yep they are in fact Elite Specalised Shock troops - they just arn't superhuman.


Ok I can see a point here. What I had in mind is SoB were created (or rather, allowed to exist) as foot soldiers of the Ecclesiarchy, because officially they can't employ man in arms. But Space Marines were created and very highly specialized with shock actions in mind. Not just nuns interrupted from their prayer, given power armour, flamer, some (much shorter and inferior) training and told to go out there and burn things.
Are they superior to IG shock troops? Yeah, they mostly are, I give you that. Are they on even remotely the same level as marines? Not even close.

And bear in mind we're talking about fighting inside warships, with little space to fight and reflexes, brute strength is massively more important factor than in the open battlefield, marines have even higher advantage.
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Mr Morden
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Re: Replacing Space Marine Favor

Postby Mr Morden » 15 June 2016, 13:29

The Sororitas are trained from an early age and like the Astartes are trained exclusively for battle.

My point is that a normal Imperial warship relies on armsmen and women - equiped with shotguns and the like and at best carapace armour.

Plus points for Sororitas over armsmen:
Sororitas have high spec (by 40k standards) weapons - Boltguns equal to the Astartes and the training to use them effectively plus plenty of flamers and meltaguns.
They are in heavy armour (by 40k standards) which can cope with decompression and shurg off most enemy weapons they will encounter.
They are fanatical and devoted with the direct blessing of the Emperor - the latter more so one could argue than the Marines
They are highly inspriational to other Imperial forces, beyond their actual physical presence.
They are less likely to be corrupted by Chaos than Astartes and other Imperial forces - other than Grey Knights..

If you were an Imperial Cpatain and you were offered their services - most would jump at it same as they would with the Astartes.

Ships - yeah they don't have a massive fleet - but then most Chapters don't either - several Battlebarges and smattering of Crusiers plus some escorts because thats all they need. You had specifically said they had non - thats not the case.

As I noted - I understoood the favour system to be that - not ownership but links to the organisation - the Navy ships with Marine favour are not Marine ships - they are just favoured by the Chapter. They would not be allowed to own them - such could bring the Inquisitions eye into focus on them.

For reasons noted above they are superior to pretty much anything that the Imperial Guard and Navy have - and only exceeded by the Astartes and specific mechancius forces. Asartes are the super elite of the Imperium but are not always disciplined and this is another area where the Sororitas shine.

In close quarters - armour will be very important - esepcially as noted the ability to ignore decompression.
Imperial - Lady Lukara (8), Chaos - Abraxus (8), Eldar - Flower of Carnage (2) , Orks - Big Bazza (6), Wolve - Floki (6) :mrgreen:

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Ahzek Ahriman
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Re: Replacing Space Marine Favor

Postby Ahzek Ahriman » 15 June 2016, 19:38

Mr Morden wrote:The Sororitas are trained from an early age and like the Astartes are trained exclusively for battle.

My point is that a normal Imperial warship relies on armsmen and women - equiped with shotguns and the like and at best carapace armour.

Plus points for Sororitas over armsmen:
Sororitas have high spec (by 40k standards) weapons - Boltguns equal to the Astartes and the training to use them effectively plus plenty of flamers and meltaguns.
They are in heavy armour (by 40k standards) which can cope with decompression and shurg off most enemy weapons they will encounter.
They are fanatical and devoted with the direct blessing of the Emperor - the latter more so one could argue than the Marines
They are highly inspriational to other Imperial forces, beyond their actual physical presence.
They are less likely to be corrupted by Chaos than Astartes and other Imperial forces - other than Grey Knights..

If you were an Imperial Cpatain and you were offered their services - most would jump at it same as they would with the Astartes.

Ships - yeah they don't have a massive fleet - but then most Chapters don't either - several Battlebarges and smattering of Crusiers plus some escorts because thats all they need. You had specifically said they had non - thats not the case.

As I noted - I understoood the favour system to be that - not ownership but links to the organisation - the Navy ships with Marine favour are not Marine ships - they are just favoured by the Chapter. They would not be allowed to own them - such could bring the Inquisitions eye into focus on them.

For reasons noted above they are superior to pretty much anything that the Imperial Guard and Navy have - and only exceeded by the Astartes and specific mechancius forces. Asartes are the super elite of the Imperium but are not always disciplined and this is another area where the Sororitas shine.

In close quarters - armour will be very important - esepcially as noted the ability to ignore decompression.


Totally agreed with everything.
But if they were to be in the game, as it is now they would be abysmally weak. Astartes are the Imperium's finest and got nerfed to almost nothingness, with now useless bonus to lightning strike and symbolical +5 troop value. And sisters would need to be even weaker than that. So in order to potential church favour not to be useless, one perk would need to be sororitas with some weak troop bonus, and the second skill should be strong. But what strong skill you'd give the Ecclesiarchy?
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Mr Morden
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Re: Replacing Space Marine Favor

Postby Mr Morden » 15 June 2016, 20:23

Not sure :)

I am not sure there is any reason why Favours only have to be limited to 2 skills? So maybe 3 or 4 instead?

Will have a think.
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Re: Replacing Space Marine Favor

Postby Ahzek Ahriman » 16 June 2016, 00:51

Mr Morden wrote:Not sure :)

I am not sure there is any reason why Favours only have to be limited to 2 skills? So maybe 3 or 4 instead?

Will have a think.


I have nothing against this idea, but for now they have 2 perks each, probably to make them not overpowered.
If they gave 3 or 4 skills I'm all for it, it would give more make favours give more climate to your ships and massively help with specializing/customizing your fleet.

We're probably gonna have to wait for mods for that to happen.
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Re: Replacing Space Marine Favor

Postby Dulio12385 » 16 June 2016, 03:18

Personally I think its all about maintaining factional synergy and identity. IN is about gunnery, so a factional favor I believe should somehow augment this or add a new spin to it, not take it in an different and altogether inefficient direction. Why bother having a token troops boost for boarding just a little better when there's two entire factions dedicated to it as a primary strategy.

I'd have preferred that the Space Marine DLC, instead of being an independent faction be instead added to the Imperium list; jut add the Strike Cruiser and the standard-Battle Barge so you now have ships specialized in boarding to operate alongside your big gun ships. Heck that could've been the Space Marine favor, for every favor you buy you get access to one space marine ship, sans the Chapter Favor bonus, to add to your Imperium fleet.

And I think the Adepta Sororitas are represented in-game as part of the Inquisition because they are part of the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus.


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