Patch Notes 19/05/16 - Invite Friends To Custom Games!

The latest news and announcements for Battlefleet Gothic: Armada.
Purplefluffybunny
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Re: Patch Notes 19/05/16 - Invite Friends To Custom Games!

Postby Purplefluffybunny » 19 May 2016, 21:02

Disappointed that there have been no balance changes made. Disappointed that we don't have a custom multiplayer mode yet, the PvP mode that is. Disappointed we still have 300 pts cap a piece for 2v2.


EDIT: Disappointed the bug preventing 5th skill use for certain builds has not been fixed. [fixed apparently]

Ire
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Re: Patch Notes 19/05/16 - Invite Friends To Custom Games!

Postby Ire » 19 May 2016, 21:23

Spector wrote:Being able to 2 shot a ship isn't Alpha strike dmg. It's broken, period.



Yes, because landing 43 hits with pulsars to kill a completely untanked unbraced cruiser is "2 shotting". (A sheild tanked cruiser won't even loose its sheilds to a voidstalker pulsar)

Because any other battleship would be completely incapible of doing the same thing over the course of several minutes. Even at 12k range.

Like I said, its not pulsars in a vacuum alone. It's combined with those bombers, and favors, and people not knowing how to fight them.

Imps can shoot back at beyond even voidstalker pulsar range, chaos can chase them down and disable with favor, orks have tractor.

Playing as all factions gives you some perspective.

RedDevilCG
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Re: Patch Notes 19/05/16 - Invite Friends To Custom Games!

Postby RedDevilCG » 19 May 2016, 21:28

Is the server down for the patch? I can't connect to the multiplayer server.

MYNAME?
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Re: Patch Notes 19/05/16 - Invite Friends To Custom Games!

Postby MYNAME? » 19 May 2016, 22:00

Huuh. Plenty of Bug fixes but no balancing or goodies and another nerf to an already useless ork favor. Kinda shitty :S it took them that long for this?

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menaximus
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Re: Patch Notes 19/05/16 - Invite Friends To Custom Games!

Postby menaximus » 19 May 2016, 22:04

I am supprised that the eldar pulsars haven't been mentioned in the update. Since i'm not used to abuse pulsars in the first place, i wouldn't actually mind if there was any nerf for them. Actually i was hoping that starcannons would be buffed (because they are cool).

Or maybe any notes about weapons optimization will be announced later (since devs probably had a tough time, fixing all thoes things mentioned in thread).

Zephyranthes
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Re: Patch Notes 19/05/16 - Invite Friends To Custom Games!

Postby Zephyranthes » 19 May 2016, 22:38

EleGiggle

Bosie wrote:Nice one. Any news on the potential Eldar changes?


See you next month! :mrgreen:

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Ivanna
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Re: Patch Notes 19/05/16 - Invite Friends To Custom Games!

Postby Ivanna » 19 May 2016, 23:50

Spector wrote:Being able to 2 shot a ship isn't Alpha strike dmg. It's broken, period.


If you're going to make such bold statements you had better back it up with some actual data. I play Eldar and I can assure you, this is impossible.

The maximum Pulsar damage a Voidstalker can do in 1 run is 360. Yes, you can technically get that up to 540 with the stealth favour, but this is so trivial to counter that it's barely worth mentioning, not to mention that it is very rare for Eldar to take that favour on their Battleship.

360 damage will get through the shields of an untanked ship and do some hull damage, but unless you get a critical hit on the Generator those shields will likely be up again by the time you do your next firing run. IF the ship is shield tanked (as it should be vs Eldar), there's a decent chance to block the attack completely.

Add to that the shield boosting skills you can get and it can become very difficult to put any damage down at all. Most of the damage will be coming from Bombers, not Pulsars.

IF the Eldar hits you with a Disruption Bomb just prior to the attack, or is in a position where they can focus every single one of their ships in a 700 point game on one of your ships, then yes, they can kill it pretty quickly, but this only has frequent success against players who are inattentive or position their ships poorly.

Rolepgeek
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Re: Patch Notes 19/05/16 - Invite Friends To Custom Games!

Postby Rolepgeek » 20 May 2016, 00:27

Odds are he means two attack runs from the whole fleet. The Void Stalker might not be able to kill a Cruiser in two runs by itself, but add two Eclipses and it does just fine. 10 Pulsars, with Stealth 50%, is 1350 damage per run. Without, it's 900 damage. Easy enough to kill a battleship that way. Only need to be on target for three seconds, to boot, and with Overload Generators on and max Gunner, each of the 30 hits has a ~56% chance to crit.

The issue is also that, theoretically, all factions should be balanced with unupgraded, unskilled, unfavoured ships, and that they should also be balanced with upgraded, skilled, favoured ships. I think a lot of the difficulty might come from playing against opponents with vastly better ships than onself, as those favours and upgrades can make a huge difference.

I think that a good way to balance it might be making pulsars take 6 seconds to unleash everything, rather than 3. In the TT, Pulsars were only ~75% better than equivalent firepower of normal lances, but could do a lot of damage at once if you were lucky. In this, they tried to simulate that difficulty by making it a skill shot, but an instant-hit skill shot, where turn rates and range mean you can simply set them to auto-target, makes it a lot less 1.75 DPS equivalent, and a lot more 3 DPS per with extreme alpha on a race with excellent mobility and stealth. Making it more of a commitment with a range nerf and time increase, together with a bit more survivability in terms of facing macro cannons(and preferably some way to deal with Taunt), would go a long way towards making Eldar more balanced, in the 'between Starcannons and pulsars' sense. Using Starcannons to take down shields and Pulsars as a follow-up should be a good and legitimate strategy, as it takes a bit more skill to pull off, rewards diversifying your fleet, and is a tactic that makes sense given the wolfpack tactics Corsairs would use (nip at their heels, snipe off the weaker members of the herd one at a time, until you can go in for the kill).

Ire
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Re: Patch Notes 19/05/16 - Invite Friends To Custom Games!

Postby Ire » 20 May 2016, 04:08

Rolepgeek wrote:stuff


Well, I would *hope* that if I manage to sneak my entire eldar fleet within 9k of a single 140pt target thats foolish enough to not be tanked or braced or supported with defensive fighters that the hit and run alpha strike race be able to actually maybe kill it after a couple such runs.

Let's be realistic here. Under those conditions it doesn't really matter what race your playing, if you manage to focus all your firepower onto a single unranked/braced target for a minute or two, its going down pretty fast.

With the introduction of the widow maker, there isn't any way your sneaking up on an imperial player with half a brain. Chaos has multiple answers as well, so orks are the only ones easily ripped apart by pulsars unless they take evil Suns. orks do need a tractor nerf (a bigger problem than pulsars imo) and buffs to brb to compensate.

Go play pvp eldar right now, sans voidstalker its clearly the weakest race overall atm, now that people that don't just qq have learned how to fight them.

Any tt comparison of the eldar basically needs to be thrown out automatically - there was no way the race would translate directly as anything remotely playable or balanced.

Your dead on about the difficulty of balancing the upgrade system. That will always be a nightmare.

But I'm curious as to how the "increase pulsar duration" really solves anything. If you buff holo to compensate, who cares, and if the duration does hurt to much, you'll see players abort after the first pulse or two and draw out the hit and wait even more. I think everyone's on board with the range nerf but I'd be happier with diminishing damage over range (doesn't seem fair that eldar max weapon range is only 60% that of other races...) to encourage and reward, rather than force, agressive playstyle. As it stands, a pulsar range nerf will actually end up making the pulsars more powerful (as your starcannons will deplete the sheild and more of the AP Lance will burn through armor, the reverse of what currently happens.

My theory has always been cut the base cooldown to 20s and damage from 30 to 20. Same dps, but need to commit more frequently, and reduces the alpha strike capacity by 50% .

Thing is, there is a decent amount of counterplay for pulsar. But those eldar bombers pretty much don't care what you throw in their way, and people are attributing their damage to the pulsars, which simply isn't true.

Personally, I actually have a decent amount of faith that tindalos is considering the issue deeply and on many levels, because "just nerfing them" would simply cripple the faction. The only thing they've done wrong is been misleading us into expecting the balance patch today.

Rolepgeek
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Re: Patch Notes 19/05/16 - Invite Friends To Custom Games!

Postby Rolepgeek » 20 May 2016, 05:28

It's not just Cruisers, though. 775 Damage before starcannons against a standard battleship, counting shields. It doesn't matter if you're sneaking or not; Void Stalker w/ Eclipses, vs. non-tank Emperor or Retribution(particularly if they've used up their Special Order for the moment), and they'll eat it for breakfast in the alpha strike. Star Cannons will do the damage the bombers won't against the Emperor, and vice versa on the Retribution. Toss in Vaul's Blessing, Webway Slip, and boosts, and you can sneak in your Alpha and get out again in under five seconds for the Void Stalker. Chaos will fare worse than the Emperor in this scenario too, though they might have an easier time keeping it from arising. Orks have less shields, more Traktorz (which do, most certainly, need some changes, though changing Taunt might do more good on that front), but without Grot Launchas they're boned by bombers as you said. If you can pull off Saim-Hann, the Alpha Strike goes up to ~1094 aka ~694 hull damage, before Starcannons and Bombers. Easily two runs to kill a BB. Maybe one for a BC, if it isn't braced, tanked, and/or screened.

The crits might be more relevant here, though, as the fires, hull breaches, and general crippling of the shop are as likely as not to be producing that feeling of helplessness and frustration. But yes, having to Brace/Tank just to not lose a battleship in the first forty or so seconds of engagement can be frustrating. Bombers certainly don't help matters. Butmaking Eldar more accessible to fight, so that even if you aren't doing as much damage as you might have before, at least you're doing something, would be nice. At lower point value games, too.

I'm not at Admiral 8 in multiplayer yet (Yeah yeah grain of salt and what have you), but I had a match as Orks against Eldar at 250 points or so, and it was the least I've ever been able to accomplish, in part because I didn't have a recon beacon. They were just 6k pulsars, and two light cruisers were unable to do anything about them whatsoever. They had no favours, I had no favours. That is somewhat of a problem.

I think that making it 6 seconds would help because it gives time to actually react, rather than seeing the beams start, beginning to throw the skills you need to catch them, and they're gone. Holofields will be more effective, but not perfectly so. If Elder players want to only use part of their DPS, then that's their choice in this, and is a decision as much as any other. Longer you give them to chase you, more likely they are to box you in.


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