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Re: Update 1.5.8536 - Patch Note

Posted: 26 June 2016, 11:32
by Ackbar
Demoulius wrote:Torpedoes hurt them just fine. Nova cannon still ignore armor and Gothic cruisers eat up strike cruisers for lunch. Mind you a battlebarge will probably take alot longer to take with excisting tools but its not like the IN cant harm space marines :|



Against two battle barges and no strike cruisers with the fighter upgrade makes it quite hard i tried adapting using a gothic but it just doesn't synergize will was i can;t strip shields fast enough with the emperor and the dictator class

Re: Update 1.5.8536 - Patch Note

Posted: 26 June 2016, 11:59
by Demoulius
You are going toe to toe with them in their favoured engagement range and are suprised its not working? A dictator and an Emperor arent the best in the firepower department either. They are good carriers but not brawlers. The SM's lack good long range engagements if you disable their thunderhawks and torpedoes. I think a long range engagement would have fared alot better for you

Re: Update 1.5.8536 - Patch Note

Posted: 28 June 2016, 04:30
by Spartan-089
Demoulius wrote:You are going toe to toe with them in their favoured engagement range and are suprised its not working? A dictator and an Emperor arent the best in the firepower department either. They are good carriers but not brawlers. The SM's lack good long range engagements if you disable their thunderhawks and torpedoes. I think a long range engagement would have fared alot better for you


This is true to an extent, boarding torpedoes help even the odds at range too unless they have a defensive carrier, however in most of my experiences since I almost exclusively use dual MK1 Battle Barges and a single Hunter escort in 700pt games, I dont have trouble closing the distance with IN. If they try to run and create an "ideal" engagement range I ussually just close the distance with a combination of Induction Cells and MWJ. That said like you mentioned its not unbeatable, 3 Dominators and a Mars will put the hurt at both long range and close if properly kitted out and all focusing 1 Barge at a time, I mean everything, boarding actions, double broadside maneuvering, and Nova Cannon shots. If faced with 2 barges always focus fire 1 untill is dies, then move on the other.

Re: Update 1.5.8536 - Patch Note

Posted: 01 July 2016, 10:50
by Cyke
Ackbar wrote:Against two battle barges and no strike cruisers with the fighter upgrade makes it quite hard i tried adapting using a gothic but it just doesn't synergize will was i can;t strip shields fast enough with the emperor and the dictator class

I'm going to have to agree with Demoulius here.

Even from a pure analysis of data without the practicals of actual combat, this is a sub-optimal build strategy.

- The Gothic's lances pierce armor, but you need you to knock down the shields first for maximum effect.
- The Emperor and Dictator sacrifice direct firepower to have launch bays, but bombers (and torpedoes) don't knock down shields.

So even when they're all focusing attacks on the same enemy ship, they aren't really fully cooperating to kill it.

Strip the shields with massed macro-batteries first, then let the upgraded Gothics stay at 9k range while cutting the armored hulls to pieces.

Re: Update 1.5.8536 - Patch Note

Posted: 01 July 2016, 12:49
by Cryhavok
Cyke wrote:
Ackbar wrote:Against two battle barges and no strike cruisers with the fighter upgrade makes it quite hard i tried adapting using a gothic but it just doesn't synergize will was i can;t strip shields fast enough with the emperor and the dictator class

I'm going to have to agree with Demoulius here.

Even from a pure analysis of data without the practicals of actual combat, this is a sub-optimal build strategy.

- The Gothic's lances pierce armor, but you need you to knock down the shields first for maximum effect.
- The Emperor and Dictator sacrifice direct firepower to have launch bays, but bombers (and torpedoes) don't knock down shields.

So even when they're all focusing attacks on the same enemy ship, they aren't really fully cooperating to kill it.

Strip the shields with massed macro-batteries first, then let the upgraded Gothics stay at 9k range while cutting the armored hulls to pieces.

You can also use disruption bombs to strip shields.

Re: Update 1.5.8536 - Patch Note

Posted: 04 July 2016, 01:27
by BrianDavion
the change to AP was a great one and cannot be praised eneugh. this'll make marines MUCH more duable

Re: Update 1.5.8536 - Patch Note

Posted: 08 July 2016, 14:38
by Gerver
Cyke wrote:
Ackbar wrote:Against two battle barges and no strike cruisers with the fighter upgrade makes it quite hard i tried adapting using a gothic but it just doesn't synergize will was i can;t strip shields fast enough with the emperor and the dictator class

I'm going to have to agree with Demoulius here.

Even from a pure analysis of data without the practicals of actual combat, this is a sub-optimal build strategy.

- The Gothic's lances pierce armor, but you need you to knock down the shields first for maximum effect.
- The Emperor and Dictator sacrifice direct firepower to have launch bays, but bombers (and torpedoes) don't knock down shields.

So even when they're all focusing attacks on the same enemy ship, they aren't really fully cooperating to kill it.

Strip the shields with massed macro-batteries first, then let the upgraded Gothics stay at 9k range while cutting the armored hulls to pieces.

3 dps Gothic cutting 1400 HP Barge. Let me stop laughing and count, two cruisers (equal point cost vs barge), 6 dps together, 4 minutes of constant shooting (and there will be shield recharge, with voss upgrade for sure, and repairs) to destroy single barge. No, i cant stop laughing.
More likely Gothic will eat boarding torps and loose all guns, Barge will block enemy torps with "summon fighters" skill and chase them to death with thunderhawks, torps, 9k bombardment under +30% accuracy buff.

Re: Update 1.5.8536 - Patch Note

Posted: 10 July 2016, 14:40
by Imperator5
Gerver wrote:
Cyke wrote:
Ackbar wrote:Against two battle barges and no strike cruisers with the fighter upgrade makes it quite hard i tried adapting using a gothic but it just doesn't synergize will was i can;t strip shields fast enough with the emperor and the dictator class

I'm going to have to agree with Demoulius here.

Even from a pure analysis of data without the practicals of actual combat, this is a sub-optimal build strategy.

- The Gothic's lances pierce armor, but you need you to knock down the shields first for maximum effect.
- The Emperor and Dictator sacrifice direct firepower to have launch bays, but bombers (and torpedoes) don't knock down shields.

So even when they're all focusing attacks on the same enemy ship, they aren't really fully cooperating to kill it.

Strip the shields with massed macro-batteries first, then let the upgraded Gothics stay at 9k range while cutting the armored hulls to pieces.

3 dps Gothic cutting 1400 HP Barge. Let me stop laughing and count, two cruisers (equal point cost vs barge), 6 dps together, 4 minutes of constant shooting (and there will be shield recharge, with voss upgrade for sure, and repairs) to destroy single barge. No, i cant stop laughing.
More likely Gothic will eat boarding torps and loose all guns, Barge will block enemy torps with "summon fighters" skill and chase them to death with thunderhawks, torps, 9k bombardment under +30% accuracy buff.


Yeah one squadron of figthers that even take a skillslot won't work against massed bombers or torpedoes.

Re: Update 1.5.8536 - Patch Note

Posted: 11 July 2016, 10:37
by Cyke
Gerver wrote:
Cyke wrote:
Ackbar wrote:Against two battle barges and no strike cruisers with the fighter upgrade makes it quite hard i tried adapting using a gothic but it just doesn't synergize will was i can;t strip shields fast enough with the emperor and the dictator class

I'm going to have to agree with Demoulius here.

Even from a pure analysis of data without the practicals of actual combat, this is a sub-optimal build strategy.

- The Gothic's lances pierce armor, but you need you to knock down the shields first for maximum effect.
- The Emperor and Dictator sacrifice direct firepower to have launch bays, but bombers (and torpedoes) don't knock down shields.

So even when they're all focusing attacks on the same enemy ship, they aren't really fully cooperating to kill it.

Strip the shields with massed macro-batteries first, then let the upgraded Gothics stay at 9k range while cutting the armored hulls to pieces.

3 dps Gothic cutting 1400 HP Barge. Let me stop laughing and count, two cruisers (equal point cost vs barge), 6 dps together, 4 minutes of constant shooting (and there will be shield recharge, with voss upgrade for sure, and repairs) to destroy single barge. No, i cant stop laughing.
More likely Gothic will eat boarding torps and loose all guns, Barge will block enemy torps with "summon fighters" skill and chase them to death with thunderhawks, torps, 9k bombardment under +30% accuracy buff.
So.. what's your approach then?


So there's shields and repairs etc etc, but we all know that already, so purely for comparison..
Two Gothics does 6dps to hull, meaning 200 seconds to cut through 1200hp.
Two Dominators at 9k range will do 3 dps, meaning 400 seconds, which is worse.
Two Dominators at 3k range with Macro AP Ammo will do 9.6dps, which means 125 seconds. But also means eating Boarding Actions..

And as Imperator5 said, I seriously doubt 6 Stormhawks every 60 seconds are going to shoot down all the regular and Melta torpedoes fired at a Battle Barge.

Re: Update 1.5.8536 - Patch Note

Posted: 18 July 2016, 15:43
by WhiteHawke
I have the same concern BabyLionCub was expressing when the patch launched. I was playing this game quite a bit in 2v2 skirmish vs AI this weekend and the point limit was 300 for every single game, not 350. Is this issue being looked at?